Propane vs: Electric - Which appliances?

PintoPoint

PintoPoint

Guest
I am building my home in Cholla Bay. This is what I am thinking.

Putting the water heater, clothes dryer, furnace and cooktop on propane an putting the oven and AC on 220V electric.

Question: Does this sound right?

Rick
Cholla Bay
 
Roberto

Roberto

Guest
I would definately go with a simple solar hot water heater and if the house is not yet built, install infloor heat and heat the house with solar as well. I used polybutaline flexible piping in floor in a house I built in NM. Worked a treat, makes a very comfortable home in the winter. The heat is collected in the day and stored in the floor. Conditions here are perfect for solar so if you incorporate a good passive solar design in the house you probably wont' need any heat at all. South facing glass with the proper length roof overhang to stop the summer sun heat are the important elements. I've got a buddy here in Penasco who is a US architect who could advise you on the details.

If you are turned off by solar then I agree with propane over electricity. You want to keep the use down so you don't get into the high rate category.
 
PintoPoint

PintoPoint

Guest
Roberto,
I have most of the house built. Actually it is two 2200 SQ FT condos but I don't like to use that word on this forum. I have built them out of Foxblock ICF foam blocks which give me a R52 rating. I am planning on using solar electric and wind. If just family was going to use it I would be much more aggressive. With weekend renters I am pretty sure they won't conserve on anything. My question was making sure I was not doing something out of ordinary which will cause me troulble down the road. I have already painted myself in a corner on my water supply. When I bought I paid a premium for underground water, sewer, power and telephone. What they did not tell me was that it would be installed in the street but not hooked up to the city. I do like the heat in the floor though.

Rick
Cholla Bay
 
Roberto

Roberto

Guest
"With weekend renters I am pretty sure they won't conserve on anything"

You sure got that one right!! The only drawback to propane that I know of is the idiots they send out to fill the tank. Last year they filled it and left, i went out a few minutes later and propane was leaking out around the fill nozzle, a LOT. I flipped out, we called them back and they came back and fixed it. Unfortunatley they must have damage the filler as the gas all leaked out over a short period.

OK, I won't tell anyone about the condos !!!
 
playaperro

playaperro

El Pirata
If your going to rent it make it all electric, solar panels will walk away, Propane expensive and runs out, nothing worst that a pissed off renter.
 
PintoPoint

PintoPoint

Guest
Would not running on all electric make for a very expensive electric bill? My understanding is that the electric use is based in tiers the more you use the higher per unit cost. I don't have much experience with propane except for my grille. I would think that a good size tank should last quite a while. (I don't know) I should be able to monitor the tank via the internet and just call someone to fill it. Just trying to think things out before I put everything in.

Rick
Cholla Bay
 
playaperro

playaperro

El Pirata
Back in the good old times when I would average about $200.00 to $400.00 every 2 months. Running a 5 ton and 3 ton A/C. Propane also has a smell to it, the all electric homes smell like fabulosa....
 
Ladyjeeper

Ladyjeeper

Sonoran Goddess
Staff member
I would run everything on propane except what you can run on solar and the A/C. I would leave some money with the propane company for if they run out and the number on the fridge for your renters to call if you can't monitor it on the net. My trailer doesn't smell like propane, Playa......
 
playaperro

playaperro

El Pirata
Smells like rum & coke

I just bought a new refrig and my electric bill went down $23 a month the energy saving stuff works. Maybe someone can break down the costs.
 
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jerry

jerry

Guest
Rinnai propane heaters are the bomb (in a good way)....tankless propane water heater work well but long pipe runs and undersized lines can make it slow going....Propane stove top with electric oven would be my choice...I'd go Electrolux if i didn't have to pay the duty and actually still had any money to my name...On a cheapskate note if you get one of those 300 dollar small chest freezers and change it to just be a refrigerator it is great for beer and soft drinks with room for a watewrmelon or too to boot
 
playaperro

playaperro

El Pirata
Rick just my shot of tequila worth...Jerry has a good point with the tankless water heater... I never used propane, aways had city hookup..I know you are used
to trucking your stuff in to Cholla. If you have to refill your water barrels than I guess they may as well order the propane too...If its less expensive...How much
was your water bill last year?
 
PintoPoint

PintoPoint

Guest
My water bill is about $45 per week. The problem is that people from the USA don't understand water conservation. I have a temporary 100 gallon tank and its amazing how fast it is used up. Lady Jeeper had a great point to deposit money with the gas company. I was building this just for my own use I would do things differently. I have a tankless hotwater heater at home and I struggle with it because of the long runs. I have designed the new house within 25' of the boiler for each Condo oops I mean each home.

Rick
Cholla Bay
 
Roberto

Roberto

Guest
The big propane user will be the hot water heaters. You can make a simple solar preheater to save a lot.
One disadvantage of propane for hot water in your circumstances is if they are not properly installed and vented the pilots can go out at inoportune times. I don't think anyone down here knows the proper way to install and vent the water heaters. There is a wind diverter that should go into the vent line that prevents a downdraft from blowing out the pilot and no one installs them here and we do get gusty winds a lot.

If you have a large tank you won't run out. Not sure I'd trust the propane companies with money, rather be sure to have a good management company to take care of stuff like that.

The more I think about it, in your circumstances I'd probably go with electirc water heaters with a simple solar preheater and turn the things off when no one is there. Renters will flip a breaker for you or you could install switches.

You are absolutely correct to be concerned about renter behavior. Many will run the AC at full blast with doors and windows open. We have one unit that freezes up under these circumstances and we get calls that the AC has failed.

The other thing that may be a problem for you, if you are having water trucked in, is that the renters will use up all the water and the pump will run continuously and burn out. I'd put in as many tanks as you can !!


You will definately want someone to check your units out quickly after a renter leaves. They will leave doors open and AC on full blast.
 
PintoPoint

PintoPoint

Guest
My plans are to do long term rental on one unit and short term on the other. That way I have the long term renter manage and call in the cleaning crew after each use. This also leaves one available for me schedule some time. There are six boat/atv storage garages on the first floor that I will be renting out and those will need to be monitored also. I plan on monitoring most things through the internet including changing entry codes. I think the instant hot water heaters might do the trick and I won't have to worry about turning them off.

Rick
Cholla Bay
 
InkaRoads

InkaRoads

cronopiador
I heard someone mentioning that CFE has, at least in Mexico City, coin operated meters for electric service, for rentals are great and if you own the equipment, you actually make a little on the side the only drawback is all electric on the other hand it can be used with a solar system if you go greener!
 
playaperro

playaperro

El Pirata
Rick can you post some pics of your project, I remember going by there a 1.5 years ago and you had started on the project.
 
D

Dezracer

Guest
If you are still using the barrels on the roof and plan to have renters...I recommend you ditch the barrels and switch to a underground tank. Barrels, dont have enough capacity and blow off the roof when dry. So install the pump so where enclosed to prevent the sand and elements from ruining it. Also you have to install it someplace where it it leaked, it wont flood your house.
 
PintoPoint

PintoPoint

Guest
Dezracer,
Underground is not an option because I am on solid rock. I was thinking about placing them in the garage. I also have one spot under ground but it is close to the septic tank. The tank is sealed and the leach lines are 25 feet away but it still does not seem like a good idea.

Rick
Cholla Bay
 
PintoPoint

PintoPoint

Guest
Here are a couple of photos. I have not got very far in the last year of so. Money has been tight for the last year. Next step is to get the next roof on ,then the palapa's.


ChollaApr09 008.jpgChollaApr09 002.jpg

Rick
Cholla Bay
 
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