WTF(ruit) was THAT?

[m4shawn]

I need some help understanding something that happened to us back on April 1st at the border coming INTO Mexico at Sonoyta; hoping you guys can explain it to me so that my gringo ass can take the steps to avoid it ever again.

We were pulling a small U-Haul trailer full of all our supplies for the voleyball tournament. This consisted of everything from non-descript metal conduit and plastic construction fencing, tools, nets, cardboard boxes buried in the back (thank god)full of tourney t-shirts for every player and what seemed to be our undoing: 35 brand new Wilson volleyballs still in their boxes for both prizes and playing.

One Mexico agent waved us over for inspection; I expected it and did so without resistance or surprise, gladly opened up the trailer for her to look in. That's when the trouble started.
A second and third agent came over and they started pointing and handling the new volleyballs like the apes with the computer in 2001: A Space Oddity. There was a lot of muttering and they kept asking me how many, how much they were worth and then if I had a receipt for them (???):???:
I was pleasant and even presented them with a logoed letter from Las Palomas explaining my purpose, my equipment and making it clear that I was not bringng these things into Mexico for selling. The letter meant nothing to them - they seemed to consider it with scorn.

I was told I owed money :shock: - the word "impeusto" kept being tossed at me, no matter how I explained these things were not for sale. I understand that impuesto means "tax". WTF?? They didn't care, and when I asked how much "impeusto", the agent who was particularly cocky and dismissive scratched his head and thought for a moment and replied: "three or four hundred American dollars." :eek3:

They could not get past the shiny, new boxes of volleyballs. They kept handling them and focusing on them and asking "how much it cost for all of these?"

I argued and got very stressed, then a supervisor type fellow from that office across the street whose sign reads "Gayan" or something like it came over. From his broken English and my broken Spanish I was able to get from him these facts: - he told me bringing things into Mexico requires paperwork that should have been filed weeks earlier with their office by Las Palomas. - Told me that they could, under these circumstances, seize and impound my entire trailer. Kept telling me I owed an impuesto. Said that letter I had meant nothing.

He ended up waving me over to a quiet spot and telling me he would let me go for $100 cash.... and one of the balls for his grandson.

Of course at that point I agreed.

WTF just happened and why? Did I get hosed or did I actually violate some tax law?

More importantly, what should I do in the future to not get "impuestoed" or rolled? Obviously it would have been smart to bury the balls.
Don't people bring stuff in all the time; high dollar stuff like ATVs, Jet Skis, furnishings and stereos for their condos and such?
Was it just the balls that were too much for them to get past? Do I really need to file paperwork with the importation office every time I run a tournament?

Las Palomas told me their other events, like the Triathlon, do not get hassled like this, but then following ours and their event we had this exchange:

Dear Shawn,
Just to let you know! In order to Convention and Vistitors Bureau of Puerto Peñasco to help you with the Aduana,
You need to send them the following information
Vehicule plate # color model year
Responsable in charge of the vehicule
And a list of every single item you are taking trhu the border.
This must be sent at least 15 days before., please note that this past Triathlon to have all these was not a guraranty at all, and they had to pospone a trip for a day.


(Me): Do you know what the process is? Why are we having to do this? It's OK, I just would like to know what we are doing. Is this "temporary importation" different from normal importation and will it mean I do not have to pay an "impuesto"?




(Her):

Actually I don't even know if is a temporary importation!​

No way you don't need to pay for this.​

 

[jerry]

m4shawn, Having built and furnished 2 houses down mexico way I think you need to hire a local fixer in Sonoyta (I know a great one) for the big stuff. Stuff like prizes either buy local or have them in a separate car.Smaller prizes size wise that you can stash might be an idea.Finally you can get a lot of stuff in an inflatable kayak on a pickup rack too.If it just looks like you are beach camping they never climb up to look.

 

[rockyptjoe]

On a similar vein, I was involved in some jetski racing several years ago. Many of the racers running modified 2 stroke engines used racing fuel, which was not readily available in RP, so they brought 55 gallon drums down. There was such a hassle crossing the border, that they just quit on coming down for any racing. The owners of JJ's were willing to sponsor races and even obtain all the necessary permits/paperwork, but the racers just were not interested after getting hassled.

I have been "taxed" for bringing in a generator that I used with my rv back in the day when power at the campgrounds was unreliable. I make sure that I have the many year old receipt for the tax (28%) that I paid if I decide to bring the generator with me.

There is a list of items that you can bring in to Mexico without duty....and it is limited. The list should be available at the border.

 

[m4shawn]

really?

So RPJoe - do you mean to tell me that whenever a person brings in anything that is not on this list, it is subject, legally, to a "tax" just by virtue of being brought onto Mexican soil? Aren't there very specific and well thought out importation laws, or are they so ass-backward that any item being brought into their country is coveted as tax eligible? Don't you have to intend to sell it to be imposed an "importation tax" = impuesto? Or are these border agents either ignorant and/or corrupt and just skimming money off of Americans they know need to proceed to their destination?

Seems really arbitrary and doesn't make sense, esp for a country that should welcome every American penny being spent in their poverty rife country in a bad economy --- why would they fu** with Americans bringing business into their country?

 

[playaperro]

Do not bring products in boxes

If its new in the box they will tax you, you can only bring one or two items
of the same product, they will say you are bringing it to sell, like your balls and tee's. Sometimes the limit is $50.00 to $150.00. Over the limit you pay there set fee. Some people would rather pay the mordida like you did
other feel more confortable pulling over the the left when you cross into
mexico and declare their goods and pay the tax.

 

[rockyptjoe]

So RPJoe - do you mean to tell me that whenever a person brings in anything that is not on this list, it is subject, legally, to a "tax" just by virtue of being brought onto Mexican soil? Aren't there very specific and well thought out importation laws, or are they so ass-backward that any item being brought into their country is coveted as tax eligible? Don't you have to intend to sell it to be imposed an "importation tax" = impuesto? Or are these border agents either ignorant and/or corrupt and just skimming money off of Americans they know need to proceed to their destination?

Seems really arbitrary and doesn't make sense, esp for a country that should welcome every American penny being spent in their poverty rife country in a bad economy --- why would they fu** with Americans bringing business into their country?

The only way I can respond to this is to say that you are visiting a foreign country....they have their laws, their system of justice, etc....and they may not conform to what we as USA residents expect in our own country. Also, remember that "mordida" (hope I spelled it right) or bribery is an accepted way of life in many countries of the world....and our US sense of right or wrong has nothing to do with it!!!

However, a case in point....I was bringing in diesel fuel from Mexico when the prices went crazy here....Mexico was about $2/gallon cheaper. I was not reselling the fuel....just bringing in enough to tide me over between trips. I got zapped at the border by ADOT for "importing" fuel....I was hit with a penalty and tax on the 50 extra gallons that I brought in. I was also told that if I brought back any fuel in my jetski fuel jugs, I could get taxed on that also. Only the fuel in the tank of my truck, or the fuel in the jetski tanks was not taxable. So...is that any different than what you were experiencing?

 

[Roberto]

m4shawn
A already related here, you have to remember that Mexico is a different country from the US with different rules. You might not like it, but you do have to live with it. Jerry had the best suggestion, plan ahead, find out the rules and get some help. There is probably a way to bring your items into the country legally and without tax if they are for an event and will return to the US.

Please don't take the arrogant "I'm from the United States" attitude. If you tried to cross into the US with a load of oranges, or Ham, to help out the economy in the US, would the ICE folk listen and just take your word? No, they are there to enforce the laws. Also I would appreciate you dropping the WTF, keep that for your bar friends.

 

[m4shawn]

Jerry: by "a local fixer", what do you mean? And if whatever that is helps, I'm all ears and will gladly utilize his services if you tell me what I should do; thanks!

Perro: Thanks. Sounds like common sense good advice; thank you for the insight.

RPJoe: Thank you too. Interesting perspective on the mordida. I guess if I had expected that it would have been quite the different reaction for me. Point taken about being a different country -- I just don't get how it can be so arbitrary or how it makes sense economically, as you pointed out with the loss of the Jet Ski event due to this random impuesto "right".

Roberto: My "attitude" is not a feeling of entitlement as an ugly American. I'm not asking to "get away with" something, thank you. I think anyone can understand being shocked and outraged over someone basically extorting money from you, fuzzy legality of the damn thing, regardless. I just wanted to mind my own business and proceed to run this event. I wasn't importing anything, selling anything for profit; naturally this opportunistic, grimy pawed demand for my hard earned dollars was infuriating. You telling me you can't relate?

I'm asking, in part, what ARE the laws - geezus - I wasn't outraged at not being able to circumvent them.

And I guess I apologize (?) for the F part of WTF; I didn't realize our sensibilities were so delicate here. I thought church was some other place.

 

[JayT]

Shawn, You probably could have pulled off the volleyballs if you took them out of the boxes and kept them in a ball bag. It's new stuff in original packaging, electronics, and big quantities beyond personal use that seem to trigger the Mexico customs guys.

We brought a Suburban load of children's clothes for Casa Esperanza orphanage last year and had to pay a bunch of money to get them into Mexico. Our charity in Arizona did a holiday kid's clothes drive to benefit the orphanage. We tried to convince the aduana agents that we were bringing the clothes in to help the kids in the orphanage - which was true - but we still had to pay. Seemed wrong to have to pay money to donate stuff to help out.

 

[m4shawn]

JayT - yea, that seems to be really sound advice and what others have echoed - don't leave any Easter Egg type goodies out to alert their attentions. Thanks, man.
And wow.... that is just insane and unbelieveable that they impuestoed you for charity items - what a backwards a-- (whoops, excuse me) backwards heiny policy. Or maybe it was just plain gred.

And forum OZ: What The Fruit - hahahahaha!! I love it - that's great!:lol:

 

[GringoZona]

As always, it's the little guy who gets punished by others who've taken advantage of the system. They're just trying to protect the local economy is all. AND, if you put on some event down there, they don't want Americans pocketing all the money and not paying any Mexican taxes, etc.

Which brings up another point--I'm curious, did you have to pay any Mexican taxes for the last tourney? Like, afterward? That's what I'd be most afraid of. Someone showing up and trying to shut everything down without proof of a temporary business permit, FM3, whatever.

I'm considering bringing some musicians down for a mini Circus Mexicus-inspired event, have researched it quite a bit and that's the only thing I fear. Someone of "authority" coming up to the club's "door" and wanting a piece of the cover total. Musician permits or not, doesn't seem to be much you could do in that situation.

From reading the laws, it seemed like if the admission or hotel package fees were paid prior to getting into Mexico, I could avoid those messy situations.

Trying to sell beer and drinks on our own was another aspect I couldn't find much advice on. (In this scenario, if said event was thrown at a semi-private venue without a liquor license.) I don't want to piss off any beer distributors looking for an extra cut on top of just selling us cases and kegs of beer, throwing ‘em in the back of a pickup truck.

 

[Mentiras y Traición]

Wtf

Shawn:
You are experiencing something similar to what my family has experienced. A specific individual at a specific time and place where (and you hit this on the nose) it was very opportune for him to behave in an unethical manner. This is why it is always touch and go at the border...we don't have a schedule of the border guards with an asterisk by their name indicating "ladron" (thief). The fact that this is more of an aberration doesn't help...this is the kind of behavior that gets attention and harms the reputation of even the moral and lawful individuals. Unfortunately, at this time, we don't have a forum to identify and deal with the bad guys...it's the luck of the draw, and we all draw it at some time. It helps me to remember it is the INDIVIDUAL and not the nationality of a person that makes them behave in such a manner...and Lord knows they are everywhere.
I see nothing offensive in your posts...just frustration. Hang in there...Rocky Point is worth it.
-Sheryl

 

[rikyt]

If you follow the Mexican laws on importing, just as the USA has on importing there is very little you can cross. In Mexico you can make a small donation and get your items across the border. You do not have that luxury crossing into the USA. Just depends on which way you think is better.

 

[ernesto]

Right on!

 

[Jim]

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, I have brought a TON of stuff down. Sometimes I have to pay and sometimes not. I would guess that it is about 90% of the time I drive right through. I don't flaunt the obvious. We found a particularly stubborn guy a couple months ago when my son had an untitled little sandrail that we were bringing. I had a lot of Sams Club food and some plants so I could not go back to the US and Mexico would not let us go in. We were in limbo in the parking lot to the left as you enter. Finally they did mellow out and let us go in. I think attitude plays a huge part in it. I also have a friend who is an ex-cop from Scottsdale who donates a bunch of stuff to the local police department. The last time they held him up for a couple hours before they let him go. I really have no problem with them. At least they are flexible. Try one of the border crossings at Nogales or San Luis. You will find them much more difficult to deal with.
Gringo, you can hold your concert at the Camel Toe Cantina if you would like. We could work out some kind of deal that works for everyone.

 

[Ladyjeeper]

I think I told this story on the other forum but I had to give an aduanal all the money I had on me, 50 bucks, to take in a 150 dollar room air conditioner. It was real small, just for a 20 foot trailer. This was a looonnngggg time ago, 1990. Thank God for my Mexican friends who loaned me some money so I could have a case of Pacificos and a bottle of Ron Bacardi Anejo and bottled cokes! 50 bucks went a long way 20 years ago, especially when the storekeepers are your friends! I lost a case of Budweiser once to an aduanal. (It wasn't for me, I drink Pacifico but it was for a Mexican friend). It was sitting in the back of my Jeep out in the open. He just reached in and took it. From then on, if I take beer or something, I take them out of the case or the 12 pack and put 'em in a cooler. Makes it harder. I also take used appliances, like a scratched up DVD player and stereo and leave them out of the box and try to hide them on the floor under all the suitcases and junk. Haven't lost anything since but if I get the redlight, I come out of the box talking. I speak Spanish so it makes it easier. Well, except for the air conditioner incident. I talked to that guy 'til I was blue in the face but he wasn't budging. I was told that the rule was 50 bucks per person. If you have a fridge that's 200 bucks, you better have 4 people in the truck and a receipt for 200 bucks. We did that once, too. I've brought clothes and sacks of beans, sugar, rice and flour for the orphanage and have never gotten the red light when I had them. Somebody was taking care of me! Like what has been said on here, it's the luck of the draw. Try to not have new stuff in boxes, bring receipts and hope for the green light.

 

[Ladyjeeper]

Oh yeah, the quads. I had forgotten about that. We had the quads and the owner forgot the paperwork. We had to go back to Why and call a relative and have him fax the paperwork to us at the Why Not store. What a hassle!!! After that, I asked everytime if she had the paperwork before we left Phoenix. She got annoyed after the 15th time but I wasn't goin' thru that again!:eek3::eek3::mrgreen::mrgreen:

 

[rockyptjoe]

Oh yeah, the quads. I had forgotten about that. We had the quads and the owner forgot the paperwork. We had to go back to Why and call a relative and have him fax the paperwork to us at the Why Not store. What a hassle!!! After that, I asked everytime if she had the paperwork before we left Phoenix. She got annoyed after the 15th time but I wasn't goin' thru that again!:eek3::eek3::mrgreen::mrgreen:

Yeah...I went thru forgetting my registrations for my jetskis once....had to call back and have someone get to my house, fax the papers to the NAPA parts place in AJO.....and would you know it...I got the green light! I bet if I hadn't gotten the papers, I would have gotten red!

 

[Ladyjeeper]

We'd already gotten the red light and had to turn around. We were marked then. When we came back thru 3 hours later, we got the red light again. They were waiting for us.:lol:

 

[mexicoruss]

Think of it as a game and it all seems OK. Sometimes you get the pass and sometimes you got some splainin to do Lucy.
In regards to bands coming down to play....there is a bit of a slippery slope involved and it needs to be thought out in advance and leave nothing to chance. There are very well written rules on such activities but I think that sometimes the creation of music trumps the law in some cases ( in our minds). Thats when we have trouble. I think it has been said in earlier post that bringing stuff in to Mexico is way easier than a Mexican bringing ANYTHING into the US. Play by the rules even if the rules shift a bit from time to time, align yourselves with people who live in Mexico and who could be of assistance to you when the time comes (network), and don't wait till you are at the border to figure this all out and if you do, don't complain and don't think you are right and maybe, just maybe your good attitude will get you thru on the cheap. Yelling at these guys NEVER helps.