Thunder update

jerry

jerry

Guest
Russ takes a lot of crap for banging the Rocky Point drum (sometimes to excess) but it is too bad this wasn't a huge sucess. Maybe in the future it will be.I do think Razor racing might be a better fit or maybe boosted F-250 diesel racing where the announcer starts the race by saying "Gentlemen grab your screwdrivers". I would pay to see one of those military trucks with a machine gun in the back light up some seized vehicles...
 
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reportjones

Guest
I agree with the UTV races. There is a ton of UTV (Rhino, Rzr, etc.) racing going on at Firebird Lake. Very inexpensive sport and the cars run on Premium fuel which can be purchased at any gas station in town. The promoter might want to take a serious look at this.
 
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Azchick

Guest
A couple factors to consider......

1) The promoter should make sure to not schedule against another sprint car event that has already been scheduled.

2) Make sure that you contact some of the key players in the sprint car racing community and get them to commit to come. If the other racers know that the key players will be there, then there is a better chance that they will follow.

3) Consult with some of the other key people that have organized these events and cooperate with them. (ie: Kevin Montgomery, Jonah Trussel, Benji Lyons, Robbie Allen, Rick Setser)

4) Make sure that you use a promoter that has a good rapport with the racers and has a reputation for treating them fair.

5) Inform the race team adequately of your venue and facility. Information like insurance, safety procedures, push truck arrangements and so on.

6) A picture of the finished facility would have helped immensely. The last pictures showed no comprehensive paddock area, no catch fences, no staging areas, or anything that makes the racers feel warm and fuzzy. Even something as simple as bathroom facilities. Racers pee too.

7)The U.S. has laws and regulations to insure the safety of the fans, and participants. Professional teams work within the parameters of these laws acknowledging that they are for their safety. Just because you have an event in a foreign country like Mexico that may not have these regulations, it doesn't mean that they should not be utilized to ensure safety. I have personally seen sprint cars flip many times down the front stretch of a track, reeling down the catch fence in front of the crowd. Without the fence hundreds of fans would have been killed. I think that with an unfamiliar track, and teams that had never run there before, there would certainly have been some wrecks. I think that this event not happening has averted certain disaster.

I wish the best success for this endeavour in Rocky Point, but it had some serious questionable facets from the beginning. It was a recipe for failure and a high probability of fatal consequences. It's too bad.
 
Kenny

Kenny

Guest
Most of what you said was right on except the race at Arizona Speedway was scheduled way after this deal was announced, and their (ET) next race (the second of three that was added) is scheduled on Nov 5th, against the Oval Nationals! Also there's not a snowball's chance in hell that Kevin or Benji is going to send the ASCS, or suggest to anyone they go down there,to the contrary. Most of the ASCS regulars won't even run at Jonahs Arizona Speedway, even though he hasn't scheduled again them. Oh, and Robbie and Russ are old acquaintances, and Russ knows darn well he couldn't get Robbie down there again without a gun at his head, and maybe not even then!
It was apparent to me that this thing was going to be a bust a long time ago, almost from the very begging, and for some of the obvious things you've mentioned... What I can't figure out is why Russ kept going along with the charade till the very last, and Bob with his knowledge of everything you've listed about a safe facility etc, thought he could pull this deal off. I think Bob might need a reality check, if you know what I mean Roberto.This was not a dream, it was delusional.
Most every racer in AZ and N.M. knows about how Bob had pulled some stunts up at Thunder Raceway a few years ago that in my opinion have bordered on theft, but because, and as you might know, we try not to drag that kind of stuff out into the public; as if he was just a family member with some problems we don't want the neighbors to know about.
I asked Russ a series of questions about this deal from start, and gave him enough info both on this forum, and in private (some of what you posted) so he did have a idea of what was needed.... I also sent out a email or two to friends down there telling them to be careful with their involvement with this deal, and don't get hurt.
I think someone should pull a "Brown" on that place and put it in the hands of someone who can make sure it's ran in a responsible manner, and in the best interest's of Rocky Point.
 
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Azchick

Guest
Thanks Kenny...correct me if I'm wrong, but originally this race was billed as "Lucas Oil sponsored" and had a picture of a winged sprint car on the poster. Lucas Oil sponsors ASCS National wing cars. It wasn't until very recently that it changed to an open comp non-wing show.

Regardless, even tho we had a strong feeling this could not be done with any proper safety precautions, we still only wish the best for the future success of any racing facility. I agree...With the proper people handling this, it could be a really nice venue for the area.

I still feel they would be better served to put UTV or buggy races of some sort there.

As far as the Robbie and Russ thing. Russ has used terms as "scared" and "timid" to describe Robbie on this forum. I guess thinking he would intimidate Robbie into coming down there. Did he think this would compel Robbie to help him in any way? Also at first he disparaged the ABC Motorsports message board/website as not being anything notable to pay attention to. He then later signed up on his message board and made posts promoting this race, realizing that it was the primary source of information for sprint car racing in Arizona. Despite being scheduled against a WWOC event and all of the underlying comments, ABC Motorsports.com helped Bob Livingston promote his event.

Also, I noted over 2700 views of the Thunder on the Beach thread on the ABC Motorsports message board. Robbie, along with many other teams, have way better things to do than to risk hundreds of thousands of dollars of equipment on such a vague prospect. Especially with the tracks right here at home needing our support.
You stated "Most of the ASCS regulars won't even run at Jonah's Arizona Speedway, even though he hasn't scheduled again them. " I have seen ASCS regulars such as Pelkey, RJ Johnson, Reinbold, Martin, Rossi, High, Deskins, Linder, Hossford, Ogle, Ditsch, Sussex etc. at Et. Even Kevin Montgomery was there last night. This shows that most promoters in good faith under better circumstances would want nothing but success for a reputable racing venture. And I am sure this includes in Rocky Point.
 
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Kenny

Kenny

Guest
Bought time Kevin showed up, wish I'd seen him. I owe him a hug..LOL Sure some of the guy's have started to run there, and some like Robbie who are pure races and not politicians, have not only ran there from the beginning, but have supported it in other ways as well. The teams and racers who are missing tells the story, if you know where to look, but yes, some others are starting to trickle in... Kevin being there shows that a sharp guy like him knows he needs to tap into all the new fans that show up out there, and he's looking into how to work that into the ASCS agenda of expansion, expansion. As you know, we had the biggest field of cars yet last night, 22, and again that was with a lot of help from the Challenge Cup guy's and non ASCS regulars
...Sure they changed the poster when I stated asking why they had Johnny Herrera in the 45X on it, and then showed them who he was running with, and what his schedule was. I even posted when he'd won a big race, just to poke them a little more. I knew it was a bunch of B.S. even then. I also noticed the there was no numbers showing on the sprint cars on the new posters, and that meant not only were they paying attention to what I had posted, they were now trying to be deceptive. I had emailed Russ telling him about Lucas Oil, and how they not only sponsoring short track racing across the county, but all other types of racing as well. I probably mentioned the off road stuff too. I noticed that in the interview that Russ did with Bob that that he mentioned Lucas Oil, and how they were big sponsors etc, and Bobs reaction to that made it obvious that he didn't know that was coming. I gave Russ a A for putting that in, but wasn't sure myself if it was true. Actually some people made inquiries with Lucas Oil, and they had never heard about a track being built in Rocky Point.
I do know that some money was spread around the local community, and JJ's LOL, that's a good thing, but overall it was just another failed improperly planned venture in PP, and that's not what was needed in these times, not at all.

Don't let the boy's hear you use the word "paddock" at a dirt track, you'll never hear the end of it..LOL
 
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Kenny

Kenny

Guest
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Roberto

Roberto

Guest
You all should remember that Russ said he was paid to promote the event, not to discuss it openly and accurately and tell you all he knew. I thought the posts should have at least gone under advertising.

I hope it all works out and they get the kinks out of the development and marketing. Despite the rah rah of the video, it looked like a lame event to me.
 
Kenny

Kenny

Guest
I'll give him credit for hanging in there when the going got tough, but could he have really been so far out of the loop that he would post this 3 days before the event on ABC's forum, and where's Bob?

"YES of course the race is on and it is huge for the city of Puerto Peñasco! On Saturday the Mayor of Peñasco will start the race. There will be all the press here and the local radio stations are broadcasting live from the event. We expect 3- 4 thousand spectators. Tecate Beer is a major sponsor and Coca Cola just signed today. We have food vendors, we have entertainers coming for the crowd. It is going to be a huge party. We have had a few cars on the track already in practice and they love it! If you are a driver or a team you should be here. The fans here will support you fo sho! I will post pics and maybe video for those of you who want to be here but are - shall we say - timid? If you are not here this weekend you will be asking yourself "WHY?" later. It is all good and the track is perfect!"
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Roberto

Roberto

Guest
Russ Sez: If you are not here this weekend you will be asking yourself "WHY?" later

He does not seem to have much concern about being accurate. Remember he always said "We expect blah blah blah." His expectations were not met, not his responsibility. Balls to the wall hyperbole, that's his sales style. I seem to recall that his sone, who posted her for a bit, has a similar style of promotion.

Now those of us who were maybe asking hard questions early on will be blamed for the failure, and I think it was a failure, certainly not a race. I liked how in the video he wanted to show all the people in the background while interviewing and virtually all of those tents shown were vendors. Anyone know any vendors who participated. He got some Coca Cola cash at the last minute.
 
Kenny

Kenny

Guest
There is a lot of things to cover when you run a open comp race at a new facility, and this might give you a idea about what all is involved...http://www.abcmotorsports.com/wwocrulesandpurseforarizonaspeedway.htm
There is no question that I've had a love affair with open wheeled racing all my life, and Rocky Point for over 50 years of it. On this deal I've not only posted exciting video to get people interest's, I've also preached that PP as being not only a great place to visit to my open wheel friends, but safe as well.
 
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GringoZona

Guest
Rome was not built in one day, as they say. The biggest thing that will attract more to future events, in my opinion, is that the cars were let through without a hassle through the Mexican border, and, God-willing, they will go back into the US without incident. The track quality and other safety measures I'm sure will be implemented as money comes in as the months go on, but at least they took the "Mexicans will steal all your nice sh*t" element out of the picture.
 
mexicoruss

mexicoruss

Lovin it in RP!
Ok I want to make just a couple of comments then I am going to crash.

First. I appreciate everyone who stood by us and supported us in this first event in Rocky Point for racing fans. It was very hard to pull off but it is done. The drivers that did come got across the border with no problems. The methanol was allowed under a special permit that Bob Livingston worked very hard to obtain. The drivers who came are now very excited to promote this track because, despite what some have posted here, the track was and is in excellent shape, every driver said that to be true. The drivers love the track they love the fans here and they love racing in Mexico. Maybe some of you think I sell too much (personality flaw, sorry) but this place (Rocky Point) is dear to me. A note to Kenney - I didnt know anything about Sprint Cars or the racing community when I met Bob, I have only known Bob for a few months, we are not old acquaintances. I am struck that even though Bob didn't have the participation that he had anticipated - everything he said to the drivers about compensation, safety, ease at crossing....all of it was paid out in full in cash and in the truth of the matter.
Second. The folks who came to the event from Mexico saw something they have never seen before. They were truly excited about the cars, they know racing trucks (IE Baja 1000 San Felipe 250) but had no idea what a dwarf car was or a sprint car, they loved it when Bob Livingston took his modified out for a few laps too. The drivers were so nice and genuine to the locals who got to visit with the drivers and check out their cars and some even got in them for pics. These guys were totally excited. It was not a huge event, I am sure it made no money, but it was clean, it was true, and Bob Livingston paid the purse as promised! and everyone who participated in it will be back for more next year with the Thunder on the Beach racing season starting in January.
Third. I will not accept any of the negative comments about me personally that I read on this forum ( some of you are so sad). All I can say to the haters is too bad for you, you should try to do something positive in your life. I am who I am and I love my town and I love people who want to do exciting things here to attract events, which attracts people which is a positive thing. Sometimes it cost a lot of money and time to be positive and do good things, but its always worth it in the end and I for one think that Bob Livingston and Darren Dodd knocked this thing out of the park. They dreamed it, they planned it, they invested heavily in it, and even though all odds were against them and the negative people (who are louder and more obnoxious than anyone else) they still did it. It was a success by all measures!
Forth. There will be Sprint Racing in Penasco, there will be Off road racing in Penasco, there will be Razor racing in Penasco, and many other events because Bob built his new track in Mexico.
2012 Season Sponsors include but not limited to - Tecate Beer - Coca Cola Mexico - Benny's Pizza - Manny's Tequila Factory - JJ's Cantina - ProAlliance Insurance - Max's Cafe - Sonoran Resorts - Las Palomas Resorts - Playa Bonita Resort - Viva Mexico Tacos - Tequila Penasco - Why Not Store - OCV (office of visitors and Conventions Penasco) - Sonora Tourism Department (Hermosillo) - Coyote Grill - The Muncipio of Puerto Penasco (Mayors office and City Hall) - Dan Monroe and the many, many volunteers who worked hard to make this event happen. I thank all of you! I mostly thank the love of my life, my wife Naomi for sticking close by me even though she hasn't seen much of me for the last 2 weeks!

Thats all now I am resting for a week, enjoy your life! AJUA! Life is good!
 
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Jim

Jim

Guest
I'm not a racing purist. Actually I don't follow the sport at all (although I grew up in Jackson, MN and went to the races every Saturday night). Was I disapointed in the turnout? Sure. I also went to the concert on Saturday night. Was I disapointed with the turnout there? Yes. Were both events a lot of fun? Absolutely.

I just don't get it. Why are so many people so anxious to talk smack and try to put a damper on events that are designed to promote our little town? Every event started somewhere and I assume that most started slowly and grew over time. Do you thing that Oscar and his friends had a great turnout for the first biker rally? Well, let me tell you that they didn't. How about the triathlon? Same. Give it a chance and be positive about things. Negativity is way too easy.

Will there be a major convention center? Maybe. Will there be a home port for cruise ships? We'll see. I do remember, however, when the coastal highway and the airport were hot topics and no one seemed to believe that they would happen. They are both completed. Sure, the economy has had an impact on the use of them but they are here and if you wait a few years I believe that they will prove to be good investments.

My real frustration is that this was another attempt at getting something started here and so many tried so hard to make that a bad thing. Come or don't come. No sweat. Why be so negative and try to intentionally stifle the event? The weather was perfect and I had a good time. Even just seeing some people that I hadn't seen in awhile and meeting some new ones was worth it.

I have known Russ for quite some time and, yes, he is a promoter and a cheerleader. Aside from that, he really is a good guy. He is the first one to jump in and push someone's car when it's stuck in the sand. Does he do this for profit? Of course. But, does he really love Rocky Point and want the best for us? I really think so. I feel bad for him on this one because this was not his idea and yet he is the one who seems to be the one to blame for the lack of drivers or attendance.

I will not get into an argument or debate after this post. No, I won't be hiding. I just don't have the time or inclination to fight an uphill battle. I'm usually pretty quiet here but this just hit a nerve. I am pretty confident that the track will be used and that it will provide some good future entertainment. Which direction it goes we will see. Remember, it was originally excavated as a marina. So, let's make lemonade out of lemons, right???

BTW, I spent some time talking with Bob Livingston and he is a really good guy. Although, he too was disapointed with the turnout, he intends to continue with his (longer term) plan, and, I truly hope that it works out.
 
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GringoZona

Guest
Just to add to Jim's comments, were any of you there for the first Roger Clyne and the Peacemakers show on top of the Sunset Cantina? I've seen bigger crowds watch cr@ppy cover bands playing local dive bars. Was the inflatable Dos XXs bottle that kept blowing onto the band a problem? Sure. Not enough power for the amps? Uhh, I think... Details from that night are a bit fuzzy... ANYWAY, now it is nearly impossible for fans of the internationally-famous act to not associate it with Penasco, or think of the town without a Refresments or Peacemaker soundtrack playing in the background, and the annual Circus Mexicus shows are among Penasco's biggest events, even prompting most rental agencies to charge holiday rates during those weekends!

If and when this becomes a big event with corporate sponsors, you can act like a jaded fan and say, "Yeah, I was there before it got all commercialized. These guys totally sold out!"
 
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Azchick

Guest
I appreciate your point Gringozona, but there was no chance that Roger Clyne or his Peacemakers would fly through the crowd at 100 mph at a weight of 1350lbs with a motor/exhaust so hot that if it touched you, you burn instantly. Oh, and the added bonus of a possibility of a methanol fire that burns invisably. Inflatable Dos XXs bottles would be the least of your problems.

I get the feeling that no one is hearing how dangerous these cars can be. It's not about being afraid to cross the border, it's about what happens from there on. Race teams need details on, Ok lets say it for the 10th time, SAFETY (for both the drivers and the crowd), INSURANCE, push trucks, etc. all the things listed and asked/NOT answered for the last several months.

Maybe, just maybe there would have been more cars had there been a free-flow of information to make them feel confident that this would not be a disaster in the making.

Bobby Marcum is a nice enough guy, but why weren't the other 5 drivers interviewed? One guy saying "Oh yeah, it's great!" won't cut it.

Once Bob has taken care of these issues, (and possibly some tow money in advance) I'm sure more teams will participate as I know alot of people that enjoy RP.
 
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reportjones

Guest
I like Russ. He is a nice guy and did the best he could.

My only concern right now is, do I have to return the $40000 I won?
 
jerry

jerry

Guest
I think the guy who came up with the money deserves a pat on the back but the safety post rang a bell with me.If a family of fans from mexico gets wiped out by one of these little tumbling steel cages of death everyone involved should just run for the border.
I think the boosters took some unfair shots from the likes of the funny reporterjones guy but this is all a hangover from having been lied to by the some of the same RP fans that defended the condo overbuild and safety issues. Last year when Russ was telling tourists it was cool to go inland beyond Caborca I pointedly told him(via the forum) it wasn't safe in some areas and warned people off.If you have followed the problems in the Mission town of Tubutama you will see that as was the case with the condos sometimes boosterism can be hazardous to your health and wallet.I always try to give people interested in moving to Santo Tomas the whole picture not just the part that puts a buck in my pocket Jim.
GringoZona said:
Just to add to Jim's comments, were any of you there for the first Roger Clyne and the Peacemakers show on top of the Sunset Cantina? I've seen bigger crowds watch cr@ppy cover bands playing local dive bars. Was the inflatable Dos XXs bottle that kept blowing onto the band a problem? Sure. Not enough power for the amps? Uhh, I think... Details from that night are a bit fuzzy... ANYWAY, now it is nearly impossible for fans of the internationally-famous act to not associate it with Penasco, or think of the town without a Refresments or Peacemaker soundtrack playing in the background, and the annual Circus Mexicus shows are among Penasco's biggest events, even prompting most rental agencies to charge holiday rates during those weekends!

If and when this becomes a big event with corporate sponsors, you can act like a jaded fan and say, "Yeah, I was there before it got all commercialized. These guys totally sold out!"
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