Question for kayakers

audsley

Guest
Since we've already drifted away from Rocky Pt, I have some questions about kayak fishing. I've never been in a kayak and thought this might be a good time to try it out in fresh water. If I take to it, I might try it in the ocean on calm days.

Any kayak I buy, now or later, would be an inflatable for ease of transport.

My first kayak would an entry level inflatable not geared to the ocean. I envision going out early in the day when the winds tend to be calmer, drifting peacefully along at Big Lake or some place similar, trolling a lure down deep on a spinning rod and holding a fly rod trailering a small fly behind a streamer. I assume I can drag an anchor to slow down my drift when winds get to 5-7 mph range. If a stronger wind suddenly comes up, I'll try to paddle back to my point of entry, but I should be able to let the the wind blow me to shore if gets that bad. Not an option in open ocean, but should work on a lake.

First, does all this seem realistic to experienced kayak fishermen?

Second, is a trolling motor of any value? I thought it might be useful for traveling to where I want to start drifting without having to paddle there each time I drift out of an area. Also, it could help in going against wind. But is the extra weight of the battery and motor, along with having to build a frame to hold the motor, really worth it?

Any advice would be appreciated.
 

Roberto

Guest
I am interested in responses to Aud's question. My fantasy involves floating up the Marua on the flow of a high tide, watching nature pass me by. The earlier in the morning the better. Maybe take a few photos. Maybe throw a line a bit. then after careful observation catch the tide out. Will I keep up going out under tide power or hang up? Will it be deep enough to travel any distance or get shallow fast? I suspect the rate of inflow is not great enough to get an early start.
 

Mexico Joe

Cholla Bay 4 Life
Since we've already drifted away from Rocky Pt, I have some questions about kayak fishing. I've never been in a kayak and thought this might be a good time to try it out in fresh water. If I take to it, I might try it in the ocean on calm days.

Any kayak I buy, now or later, would be an inflatable for ease of transport.

My first kayak would an entry level inflatable not geared to the ocean. I envision going out early in the day when the winds tend to be calmer, drifting peacefully along at Big Lake or some place similar, trolling a lure down deep on a spinning rod and holding a fly rod trailering a small fly behind a streamer. I assume I can drag an anchor to slow down my drift when winds get to 5-7 mph range. If a stronger wind suddenly comes up, I'll try to paddle back to my point of entry, but I should be able to let the the wind blow me to shore if gets that bad. Not an option in open ocean, but should work on a lake.

First, does all this seem realistic to experienced kayak fishermen?

Second, is a trolling motor of any value? I thought it might be useful for traveling to where I want to start drifting without having to paddle there each time I drift out of an area. Also, it could help in going against wind. But is the extra weight of the battery and motor, along with having to build a frame to hold the motor, really worth it?

Any advice would be appreciated.
You're pry not going to like my answers but I have always given my honest opinions regardless.

Let me say this first. I have never used an inflatable kayak. Now I will say this. Never buy an inflatable kayak. I guess to each their own but you're already complicating the process given you have never kayaked. They are far less stable. I think if you were the last person on earth and an inflatable kayak was the only tool at your disposal then yes, I'd use an inflatable. This would be similar to learning how to drive when your 16. With a sherman tank. Maybe start with a 4 banger automatic first??? Now, I do understand that sometimes the situation dictates what a person is capable of doing. If you're only capable of being able to use an inflatable and you have no other options then buy one and try it out. I know from years of reading that they are not very stable at all so plan on getting wet. There's a reason they never really caught on and are not used often at all. I think if you want to fish and absolutely have to have something inflatable, a float tube (pontoon style) or an inflatable paddle board may be better choices.

In terms of "drifting peacefully". Yes, given the kayak is stable and you can sit there for periods of time undisturbed. That would mostly pertain to the stability of the boat however, the operator does add variability because some body movement and certain motions can make tipping more likely. Kayaks are influenced mostly by center of gravity. They say, as your head goes, so does the kayak. So if you look down and try to look back behind you, your head is not on "top" of your shoulders now and the kayak will want to "roll" to whichever side your looking. There's other techniques that you can use to mitigate the risk of rolling however, you would not be able to use these techniques in an inflatable. One of the easiest ways to insure that you don't roll the kayak is by straddling the kayak with your legs. This can only be done on a SIT ON TOP. This is also why the sit in kayaks are less popular. Legs are inside the kayak, hull shape of the kayak tends to be a little different which equals less stability and more prone to "rolling". The inflatable kayaks would be considered SIT IN as well. Again, this may be the most fundamental difference when it comes to stability.

In theory, if your boat is stable enough you can drift your little heart out. Not sure a drift would be enough to troll but that depends on wind. You pry don't want to be out there in an inflatable when it gets windy. In theory, yes, you could do nothing and drift until you hit a shoreline somewhere. My concern would be how much these inflatables weigh. I bet they are NOT light. I'd be curious. Dry weight of my Cobra 12ft sit on top is 45lbs. I bet an inflatable may be a little lighter but light enough to carry around the lake after you drifted to the opposite shoreline???? With your paddle and gear???? Sounds iffy. Maybe you're HE MAN though. Not sure. I would start with some baby steps though.

Paddling and tracking of the kayak are what make some kayaks better than others. Inflatables would certainly be at the absolute bottom. Inflatables "walk" side to side with each stroke. So do sit ins. Mainly because of length. Length of boat and hull shape are the two biggest contributing factors to a kayak's tracking ability. Also, you'd need to consider material. Rubber has "give". Even at max psi the boat is going to have some "flex" to it with you in it. Every paddle stroke the boat is going to absorb some of that energy which makes the boat go side to side more than forward. If the inflatable is rubber, 8ft and sit in then it's going to have horrible paddling characteristics.

Trolling motor. Jackson kayaks has a bass set up, sit on top kayak with super nice seat, all the fixings running a trolling motor off of the stern for powering spot to spot. $2k and you'll need a trailer and be HE MAN. There are a ton of write ups on the internet GOOGLE about how to add a trolling motor to a sit on top. I'm not saying that it can't be done but pry going to be rather hard to set something like that up on an inflatable unless it has a rib bottom or hard transom. You would need a hard stern transom to be able to do this. I think it would be a major pain in the ass. One thing I've learned kayaking 10 years now is that LESS IS MORE! I used to go out there with all kinds of shit, bait taink, 4 rods, gear, cooler, music... I mean the list went on. Huge pain in the ass. Now I go with 2 rods and some of my gear down in the dry storage of the boat. Little soft cooler and that's it. To each their own. Go on the AZ KAYAK AND MOTORLESS ANGLERS page https://www.facebook.com/groups/AZKayakFishing .... You see these guys have so much crap they need trailers and have investments of 3k or more.... for a kayak!!! Once you drink the KOOLAID, some people can't control themselves. Personally less is more. Have enough stuff to have a good time but don't go down the rabbit hole.

In review. If an inflatable is the absolute only option for you, give it a try. Maybe you'll find that it works for what you need it to work for. If that's the case, that's a win. I just don't think it's going to do what you want it to do unfortunately. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there's an inflatable expert out there that can add $.02.

Here's the better question. Are you wealthy enough to buy this inflatable and have it not work out and not care? That's pry really the only question that matters. If you're wealthy enough, you should buy the inflatable and everything you need and just do the experiment yourself. Life jacket and you're good. Maybe try it in a pool first. Just send it and report back.

Kayaking in a sit on top is the most stable kayak period. If your first time was in a sit on top I don't think you'd have any reservation once you felt how stable they are.
 

Mexico Joe

Cholla Bay 4 Life
I am interested in responses to Aud's question. My fantasy involves floating up the Marua on the flow of a high tide, watching nature pass me by. The earlier in the morning the better. Maybe take a few photos. Maybe throw a line a bit. then after careful observation catch the tide out. Will I keep up going out under tide power or hang up? Will it be deep enough to travel any distance or get shallow fast? I suspect the rate of inflow is not great enough to get an early start.
The now defunct Kayak Rocky Point used to do Marua tide floats for like $35 if I remember. I met the owner through Oscar at Del Mar Charter. Roland Mondragon or something like that. Him and his wife owned Kayak Rocky Point rentals. They did organized paddles too. I went fishing with him one time on the kayak back in like 2011 but then they had to close the business and leave Mexico I think... sad.

That's exactly what they would do though. Not sure where they launched. Maybe in the back by the Oyster farms???? No se. Maybe LC and then quick paddle to the mouth and then just float. The good sit on top kayaks are so stable that you can just sit there and float. There have been times putting in at JJ's that I've been able to float all the way around to Tucson beach without hardly paddling. Only adjustment for course. The only issue I see is if you needed to get into the mouth from the beach side and the tide was going out. That also depends on tide. You'd pry want to do it on a good one to get a good drift. Slack tide would be least desirable.

The draft on these sit on top kayaks is so shallow it's unreal. Weight has something to do with it but I can float my boat with me in it in about 2 inches of water, IM NOT JOKING. I think if you wanted to do it, I'd wait for an hour or so after the incoming tide starts... It would be plenty deep on a decent tide to start your float into Marua and then every 6 hours the tide changes which, if you do it right pry gives you 3 or 4 hours of floating the estuary before you'd start the float back out to the beach side... IN THEORY! lol
 

audsley

Guest
You're right, I didn't like the messages, but they contained some content I needed to hear, so I gave you a couple of likes anyway.

Inflatable is attractive because it's more transportable. I need the back of my Tacoma for more than just a kayak.

I have a float tube and have used it some, but the kick motion isn't good for my knees which unfortunately are now metal. That's why I was looking for alternative power (oars, trolling motor) that doesn't place demands on my knees.

Inflatables designed for fishing seem to all be sit-in. Unless you're ice fishing, getting wet is part of fishing whether you're in a float tube or a panga going 12 mph through choppy water. Obviously, floating on a lake is child's play compared to being in the ocean, so maximum efficiency (no flex, etc.) isn't an issue. I won't be in a hurry or going very far.

I'll add the points you made into the mental data base I'm developing and eventually pick my poison.
 

Mexico Joe

Cholla Bay 4 Life
You're right, I didn't like the messages, but they contained some content I needed to hear, so I gave you a couple of likes anyway.

Inflatable is attractive because it's more transportable. I need the back of my Tacoma for more than just a kayak.

I have a float tube and have used it some, but the kick motion isn't good for my knees which unfortunately are now metal. That's why I was looking for alternative power (oars, trolling motor) that doesn't place demands on my knees.

Inflatables designed for fishing seem to all be sit-in. Unless you're ice fishing, getting wet is part of fishing whether you're in a float tube or a panga going 12 mph through choppy water. Obviously, floating on a lake is child's play compared to being in the ocean, so maximum efficiency (no flex, etc.) isn't an issue. I won't be in a hurry or going very far.

I'll add the points you made into the mental data base I'm developing and eventually pick my poison.
There's so many variables that go into a decision. If you only have a Honda Civic and live in an apartment but want to get out every now and then and not venture far an inflatable may work for you. I guess your question is like this, I want to get into mountain biking but I'm only looking at bikes from Walmart. Although a bike from Walmart in theory gets you out on the trail, how long will it last and will it serve it's intended purpose. If it's hard to ride and no fun it might completely eliminate the desire to even go riding. That's kind of how I have looked at a lot of these sports over the years. I have DONE THEM ALL!!!! Avid snowboarder, motocross, mountain biking, golf... Obviously if you're not rich price point comes into play in a lot of these decisions so trust me I hear you. Everything in life is an opportunity cost. I understand not wanting to take up all of your bed space. Trust me, we have two kayaks and my Taco is only the ext cab so space is definitely limited but that's where your brain power takes over. You adapt and overcome. We get everything we need in the truck but it is PACKED! I think for me the enjoyment outweighs the other inconveniences. Sure a Walmart bike gets you out in the desert but it's such a shitty product compared to a real mountain bike, would you even have fun? Taking up all the space in the bed of my truck for some good kayaks is worth the inconvenience of traveling like the Beverly Hill Billys.

That's kind of why I was saying there's so many variables that it's a more complex question/answer than simply, will an inflatable work? Inflatables float that's for sure. So I guess on the standard of can I buy and inflatable and float around in it, I would say the answer is, go for it!

The trolling motor thing has been done so much on the internet that if you get a real sit on top kayak you could definitely go that route but again, what's your dedication level? 10? Once you get more involved the kayak becomes heavier, unloading/loading becomes harder... Everything sounds good at first. A lot of this is personal preference and dedication level.
 

Mexico Joe

Cholla Bay 4 Life
I’m looking at more substantial Hobie fishing kayaks. Maybe have one by this winter.
Hobies are really nice but some are near $3k... It's getting out of control. I can't wait for the first $10k sit on top kayak... and you know there are people out there that will buy it first serve. We just picked up this other boat for my girlfriend a couple of months ago on offer up. Ocean Kayak Scrambler XT. Back in the early 2000's that boat would have cost $800. 12ft with extremely good tracking paddling characteristics. We scored it for $125. New high back seat, 2 flush mount rod holders, 8" center hatch and a really nice fiberglass paddle. Side handles and paddle keeper. I think we're all in near $300-$325. This was the nicest sit on top kayak on the internet in the secondary market and it sat there for 8 months because nobody that kayaks these days knows what a good kayak is. They all want the big bad ones that you can stand in. Problem with those is they are extremely heavy and extremely wide. It absolutely sucks to paddle one of those boats.
 

Roberto

Guest
I had an inflatable that I bought specifically to visit Penasco. My then teenage son and I stayed at Vin del Mar hotel. We inflated it at the Pemex that was still operating at the time and took it to the ocean side room we were staying in. There was a small balcony so we pushed the kayak out the door into the water. We had purchased some cheap snorkeling gear and thought that would be fun. We threw the gear loose into the kayak after tethering it just off the balcony. I managed to gently get into the kayak from one side and tried to stabilize it for him. HA! him being a pole vaulter at the time I guess he thought well just jump right in so he did. Needless to say he rolled it over and made several gifts to the sea gods in the form of our cheap goggles. We recovered the paddles and had a nice ride along the Mirados beach. but yes these things are UNSTABLE! Jim at the Sonoran Resorts bought it from me after several years of disuse !! I always wondered how he made out with his kids!
 

Mexico Joe

Cholla Bay 4 Life
I had an inflatable that I bought specifically to visit Penasco. My then teenage son and I stayed at Vin del Mar hotel. We inflated it at the Pemex that was still operating at the time and took it to the ocean side room we were staying in. There was a small balcony so we pushed the kayak out the door into the water. We had purchased some cheap snorkeling gear and thought that would be fun. We threw the gear loose into the kayak after tethering it just off the balcony. I managed to gently get into the kayak from one side and tried to stabilize it for him. HA! him being a pole vaulter at the time I guess he thought well just jump right in so he did. Needless to say he rolled it over and made several gifts to the sea gods in the form of our cheap goggles. We recovered the paddles and had a nice ride along the Mirados beach. but yes these things are UNSTABLE! Jim at the Sonoran Resorts bought it from me after several years of disuse !! I always wondered how he made out with his kids!
I'm sure they work to some extent but that's all subjective. What does the term "work" mean to you vs me? You know? I'm sure that you could use it in certain situations. I think Cholla Bay would be a decent spot for an inflatable. Open water side of Vina del Mar? On that volcanic rock? Pry not the best. I guess it would have depended on the weather that day too. When the wind is out of the southwest the waves crash that shoreline and it can get kind of frothy over there. Also can't blame an inflatable in 2 foot seas. There's a lot of factors at play here. I think in a more controlled environment like the OP originally stated, IE lake or Cholla Bay on a windless day, sure an inflatable may be all that you need to catch a few fish or do an estuary float.
 
With inflatables, the stability all depends on which one you buy, just like with any of the hardshell kayaks.

I did exactly what you are thinking, purchased an inflatable kayak for the portability. Aire Tomcat tandem, made for white water, is very stable and very tough. I've had it for 20 years now with no problems. I don't use in Mexico much anymore because it gets pushed around once any bit of wind comes up. I now have 2 hardshell kayaks (love them) and inflatable paddleboard. The hardshell kayaks don't get pushed around as much by wind, but again depends on the one you buy. A good inflatable doesn't give/bend if you properly inflate it. The cheap ones probably do. I too have a Tacoma truck and just rigged a rack to transport the hardshell kayaks. The hardshell are so much easier once you figure out the transport on your vehicle. No inflating once you get there, no worries about burying a hook in the side of it when pulling in a big fish over the side, no worries about scraping on rocks or glass when landing on the beach, and no worries about having too much pressure in it when it is sitting out on the beach in direct sun all afternoon. I now use my inflatable only for whitewater, for which it was intended. And taking out a one or two small kids with me on the ocean, in which my inflatable is very stable and safe. One of the hardest things with a kayak is getting out past or back in to the beach when waves are breaking on shore. Best to go in early morning when there are no breaking waves, but you'll eventually have to figure out how to navigate them. In Rocky Point or San Carlos, that's the only time you really have to worry about flipping a kayak. Timing is everything. And make sure anything valuable is tied in just to be sure.

Regarding a trolling motor. I'd recommend to skip it. Like Mexico Joe says, Less is More. The less stuff you can take with you, the more fun you will have. Just watch the wind and waves, and get back in before they build up. Plus, if you use it in Arizona, you will have to register your boat if you put a motor on it, gas or electric. Just another hassle. Its easier without a trolling motor by just avoiding the wind. Another way to do that is paddle into the wind when starting, so that you have the wind at your back when coming back.

My main recommendation is to try out a variety of kayaks before you buy. Hopefully you can borrow or rent or go on a couple commercial tours. The different kinds all have their positives and negatives, and you will hopefully figure out which features are most important to you by trying some out in different conditions. I'd stay away from the really cheap models and the expensive models. There are lots to choose from in the lower-mid range cost.

You will love it once you find one that suits your needs.
 
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