Las Palomas Question

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curiousgeorge

Guest
Wahoo said:
... Did you see the Full page ad, the city of PP has for owners of Real Estate on the RPTimes? TAXES are DUE NOW! Pay up since this is what the city needs to continue to fund its planed infra.

CUR George, that is the problem with RP, any resort needs 80-20 Hotels vs Condos.... RP is 20-80 and the Condos are really Hotels disguised as Condo's so they can be financed by the many owners. Conos' are not Real Estate.
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Well this town will never support 80-20 Hotels vs Condos, it is too seasonable. You are right, the existing Condos are disguised as Hotels with the owners subsidizing the slow off seasons. That is why I believe it is critical for the resorts to attract more non-renting owners. At Las Palomas, I believe the mix of renting vs non-renting owners is approx 50/50. Say with lower prices and better positioning, the mix would move to 70/30 with only 30% of the owners actively renting. Wouldn't this make for a healthier economy in RP? There would be less competition for the rental customer for the 30% and 70% would have a great second home at a low price.

I do not agree that Condos are not real estate. They are a great alternative for remote second homes where you have a hard time to manage security, maintenance, etc.
 
jerry

jerry

Guest
I think the math works against us in a different way too. In 2000 their were 5 million people in Arizona and the small town of Rockypoint was sort of booming.Now we have 6.5 million people but maybe only 2.5 million will go to Mexico. Add to that the new excess capacity in Pigeon Coop world and the problem seems unsolvable. I think we need a tidal wave.We do pretty well on renting our places in Santo Tomas because there is no competition and most of the owners are of the mind that they only rent to friends (yes we can!) Most of the the rentals go through the development website.They take about 40% but in the long run it's worth it not having to deal with the renters.
 
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curiousgeorge

Guest
jerry said:
I think the math works against us in a different way too. In 2000 their were 5 million people in Arizona and the small town of Rockypoint was sort of booming.Now we have 6.5 million people but maybe only 2.5 million will go to Mexico. Add to that the new excess capacity in Pigeon Coop world and the problem seems unsolvable. I think we need a tidal wave.We do pretty well on renting our places in Santo Tomas because there is no competition and most of the owners are of the mind that they only rent to friends (yes we can!) Most of the the rentals go through the development website.They take about 40% but in the long run it's worth it not having to deal with the renters.
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Many of the rental owners in RP were sold on the idea that the Management company could generate enough rentals to offset their monthly carrying costs. Early on, specifically at Las Palomas, this was true as their were few units and excess demand. Now with over 400 units in the rental pool, only those owners that actively and aggressively market their condos come close to meeting their monthly expenses. The problem is that most owners neither have the time nor fortitude to put all that energy into finding renters. So a few owners are relatively solvent and the majority are taking it on the chin. And if the majority did wakeup and market their own condos, the current overall market would not support everyone.

Rocky Point needs a model more like Santo Tomas, where the majority use their condos for themselves and friends while a minority aggresively rent. This would bring the Rocky Point inventory in line with a healthy 80/20 hotel/condo distribution that Wahoo suggests. With prices so low now, and 2.5 million potential customers in AZ, don't you think there is an untapped market for Rocky Point's inventory?
 
jerry

jerry

Guest
I think a hundred bucks a night for a couple ..140 for 2 couples is the line above which you run into problems renting your place out..,,,hey if you look at it as pocket money you will have fun with it...paying the bills is another matter
curiousgeorge said:
Many of the rental owners in RP were sold on the idea that the Management company could generate enough rentals to offset their monthly carrying costs. Early on, specifically at Las Palomas, this was true as their were few units and excess demand. Now with over 400 units in the rental pool, only those owners that actively and aggressively market their condos come close to meeting their monthly expenses. The problem is that most owners neither have the time nor fortitude to put all that energy into finding renters. So a few owners are relatively solvent and the majority are taking it on the chin. And if the majority did wakeup and market their own condos, the current overall market would not support everyone.

Rocky Point needs a model more like Santo Tomas, where the majority use their condos for themselves and friends while a minority aggresively rent. This would bring the Rocky Point inventory in line with a healthy 80/20 hotel/condo distribution that Wahoo suggests. With prices so low now, and 2.5 million potential customers in AZ, don't you think there is an untapped market for Rocky Point's inventory?
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dry heat

dry heat

Pigeon coup coordinator
jerry said:
I think a hundred bucks a night for a couple ..140 for 2 couples is the line above which you run into problems renting your place out..,,,hey if you look at it as pocket money you will have fun with it...paying the bills is another matter
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That is about right for example at Las Palomas. A guest can get an ocean view room starting at-
1 bedroom $115 weekday/$145 weekend (can sleep 4)
2 bedroom $155 weekday/$190 weekend (can sleep 6)
3 bedroom $210 weekday/$240 weekend (can sleep 8)
Based on these numbers, the affordability per couple is less than $100 per night.

We just need to increase the # of fish in the pond. Hopefully the fear of Mexico dies down and with the improved future outlook (port, convention center, retail, roads and more people getting a passport), we should see an increase in visitors.
 
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dwig222

Guest
Getting back to the original question. LP would be at the bottom of my list of condos to consider. All of the Sonoran properties are completed and are beautiful. That is the only place I will rent. But the best piece of advice anyone can give you is if you do buy a condo, make sure it is completed and the entire resort is completed. I agree with whoever said the best deal is to just rent a few times a year and hang on to your money.
 
dry heat

dry heat

Pigeon coup coordinator
dwig222 said:
Getting back to the original question. LP would be at the bottom of my list of condos to consider. All of the Sonoran properties are completed and are beautiful. That is the only place I will rent. But the best piece of advice anyone can give you is if you do buy a condo, make sure it is completed and the entire resort is completed. I agree with whoever said the best deal is to just rent a few times a year and hang on to your money.
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I don't think Tripadvisor or AAA feel the same way as you do when it comes to rating the stay at Las Palomas compared to the properties you mentioned.
 
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dwig222

Guest
dry heat said:
I don't think Tripadvisor or AAA feel the same way as you do when it comes to rating the stay at Las Palomas compared to the properties you mentioned.
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I use Tripadvisor and I consider their ratings for some things, but when it comes to value for my money I don't agree with them about Rocky Point. It's been about a year, so I may be misinformed, but doesn't Las Palmoas have rules about how much an owner can charge family and friends to use their condo? I can get a 2bd, 2bath condo at a Sandy Beach resort for $75 a night. Out the door, no hidden fees, Sat, Sun, holidays, etc. No cleaning fees. LP doesn't allow that. LP, I'm told is popular with the younger crowd because of the amenities, specifically the pools. I don't travel to RP with my kids or grandkids anymore so that doesn't interest me. It was just my opinion based on my needs. It's a distraction for me to stay at a property that is not completed. It's an eyesore. I also don't like to look out from my patio and see the rooftops of other buildings. The one I rent at Sonoran, I only see the grass, the sand and the blue water. It doesn't get any better than that. Maybe I looked at a different Tripadvisor web site, but it said the #1 restaurant in RP is the Chinese restaurant. Huh?
 
dry heat

dry heat

Pigeon coup coordinator
the potential employee will need years of experience in the management of a similar size development. we expect to hire the best available individual among many who will certainly apply.
 
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penasco1996

Guest
For what it's worth, I've heard Las Palomas, phase 1 & 2, are still operated by the World Wide Group; they own a large number of units, and operate the rental pools; they have stolen hundreds of thousands of USD's from owners who trusted them with the rental income on 3 fronts: 1. For a long period they reported to owners they were paying the hoa fees monthly on their behalf, and provided accounting indicating same. SURPRISE! it was fraud. The hoa fees never made it beyond their pockets. 2. They reported to owners their accumulated rental surplus, after hoa fee deductions, repairs, etc, SURPRISE! it was fraud. The owner's money evaporated. It never went beyond their pockets. 3. They refuse to pay any hoa fees, and you can guess which units get most of the rentals.

I also was told the members of WWG are well connected to the state and federal government so prosecution, until after a possible PRI election this summer, is unlikely. However, this seems unlikely as i think any corruption in Mexico is usually very localized and does not extend too far up the ladder.

Could any of this be true? I sure hope not.
 
dry heat

dry heat

Pigeon coup coordinator
penasco1996 said:
For what it's worth, I've heard Las Palomas, phase 1 & 2, are still operated by the World Wide Group; they own a large number of units, and operate the rental pools; they have stolen hundreds of thousands of USD's from owners who trusted them with the rental income on 3 fronts: 1. For a long period they reported to owners they were paying the hoa fees monthly on their behalf, and provided accounting indicating same. SURPRISE! it was fraud. The hoa fees never made it beyond their pockets. 2. They reported to owners their accumulated rental surplus, after hoa fee deductions, repairs, etc, SURPRISE! it was fraud. The owner's money evaporated. It never went beyond their pockets. 3. They refuse to pay any hoa fees, and you can guess which units get most of the rentals.

I also was told the members of WWG are well connected to the state and federal government so prosecution, until after a possible PRI election this summer, is unlikely. However, this seems unlikely as i think any corruption in Mexico is usually very localized and does not extend too far up the ladder.

Could any of this be true? I sure hope not.
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Most of the info on your post pertains to old news. The HOA is now (2012) controlled by the owners (not the developer). all enforcement and regulations apply to everyone moving forward (regardless of their affiliation). the rest of your post is filled with rumors and false information. Life as you know is unfair and we often can't correct the past. we can only control today and hopefully tomorrow (be happy and move forward from stage 1 of anger).

I could sit here and tell you all the rumors of every resort along sandy beach, yet what good would that do (by the way many of them were developed by those associated with the development of Las Palomas, including labor unions). in a small town, everything is interconnected.
 
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ernesto

Guest
Yeah and blah blah blah Dryheat. YOU may control the HOA but WWG controls the gdam resort and they stole MILLIONS not hundreds of thousands! Leopards don't change their spots, you included, Got your ass handed to you in the last meeting when Benny quit. Only you and Lorraine left to go!
 
dry heat

dry heat

Pigeon coup coordinator
ernesto said:
Yeah and blah blah blah Dryheat. YOU may control the HOA but WWG controls the gdam resort and they stole MILLIONS not hundreds of thousands! Leopards don't change their spots, you included, Got your ass handed to you in the last meeting when Benny quit. Only you and Lorraine left to go!
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yawnnnn.... entertain me child
 
dry heat

dry heat

Pigeon coup coordinator
ernesto said:
Hey Dry, i was the guy in the back of the room asking for the vote to break your cartel. I won. You lost.
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Thats cute.
In any case, the board has greater control and say than every before when it comes to running the HOA and resort. Recently, we have had more cooperation and meetings with the developers than in the last 8 years combined. Things are finally turning around now that we control the HOA.
 
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