Not sure Mexico will ever overcome this curse

[dirtsurfer]

Think maybe Mexico should just hire the Mossad and get serious about taking out their cartels. So far, most of the government and police are bought off or partners:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/10/world/americas/mexico-missing-students-impact/=

 

[Roberto]

Do you want them to take out all the drug useres who fund the cartels as well. Stop blaming Mexico exclusively. Every dollar spend by a criminal US drug users goes to fund the crisis in Mexico and hurt innocent civilians. Lets get real you have to solve the problem in it's entirety and it is not exclusively the Mexican Cartels.

 

[tequilatodd]

Every dollar spend by a criminal US drug users goes to fung the crisis in Mexico and hurt innocent civilians.

Agreed.
This is something the US has been fighting for too long. Every time someone purchases drugs from a dealer in the US, that eventually finds its way back to the Cartel, continually financing their operation. And then they smuggle more in. Sure, some if it gets stopped at the border, but surly isn't all of if. Otherwise we would be a drug free America. And I'm sure the drug trade stretches well beyond the Mexico border into south america and who knows where else. Its a world wide problem.

 

[dirtsurfer]

Roberto: drug users in the U.S. Don't go around kidnapping innocent students and killing them, nor do they behead their adversaries and hang them from bridges, nor do they committ mass murder (usually).
The violence, beheadings, mass murders, wholesale takeover of police departments, kidnapping of students is EXCLUSIVELY a Mexico problem. I did not and have not blamed anyone or anything. I just merely pointed out a terrible problem that Mexico has and Mexico's seemingly complete inability to effectively deal with it. You seem to want to look the other way by braying about the demand.
I am fully aware and agree that the economy and demand in the U.S. creates a market that is iresistable. To say that mass murderers, torturers and beheaders compare to an individual drug user or that illegal drug usage in the U.S. causes Mexicans to committ heinous crimes is preposterous: " wow! The norteamericanos are buying weed so I think it justifies me killing students".

 

[jerry]

When the big and I mean big weed growing operations start cranking up ( the first sale by the ton is happening in Washington via auction this month) in Oregon and in Arizona after we legalize it in 2016 we will see what the cartels do. Lets face it their product sucks and carries the social stigma of being "blood weed". That needs to be played up in the pop culture media and maybe a certification program can take root like "fair Trade" A bale of weed with a " No Muerte" stamp on it signifying a violence free production and distribution model would demand a higher price. or the crooks running Mexico could just legalize the herb too.

 

[Roberto]

To say that mass murderers, torturers and beheaders compare to an individual drug user or that illegal drug usage in the U.S. causes Mexicans to committ heinous crimes is preposterous: " wow! The norteamericanos are buying weed so I think it justifies me killing students".[/QUOTE]

Re-read what I wrote. It's short and to the point so you should have no problem understanding it, but if you need an explanation I'll be glad to oblige. Your 'misunderstanding " is typical of many US folk many of whom depend on the supply from the south.

 

[Mexico Joe]

Do you want them to take out all the drug useres who fund the cartels as well. Stop blaming Mexico exclusively. Every dollar spend by a criminal US drug users goes to fung the crisis in Mexico and hurt innocent civilians. Lets get real you have to sole the problem in it's entirety and it is not exclusively the Mexican Cartels.

Roberto, with all due respect, I resent this comment. "Criminal US drug user", what the fuck does that even mean? I can assure you that I am not a criminal, however I do and have used marijuana for a long time. Secondly, as I've said before, nobody that I know uses marijuana from "down South". Using their weed would be like using alcohol made out of potatoes in your bedroom closet. In fact, I can't even find weed from Mexico if I tried. Like seriously impossible. The marijuana that the vast majority of consumers use is grown domestically in the US now. Especially in the SW states. Now, I understand that in the heartland of the US it is pry the opposite. You can find shitty Mexican shwag but you can't find good. Clearly the answer here is that it is completely ridiculous after a 40 year war to keep marijuana illegal. The only war where the SYSTEM has systematically made weed CHEAPER and more readily available. Lastly, I do agree with DirtSurfer. The irrelevant killing of 43 students for no apparent reason is absolutely unacceptable. Marijuana sales can only be indirectly linked to a crime like that. As previously mentioned, there is no practical reason why those people were killed. The point being made is that the Cartels have gone absolutely mad. The American mafia was initially a community organizer for people who couldn't protect themselves, who wouldn't have been helped by the system. I'm not saying that drugs should be legal. I am saying that marijuana should be however. I am saying that the war on drugs should end. I am saying that Mexico does need to face the problem of organized corruption because Government does have a role in society to protect it's citizens. I've watched and read numerous accounts of how Pablo Escobar treated the people of Medellin. At no point did he ever feel the need to kill innocent people like 43 students. In fact, when he was killed and buried the citizens were extremely upset because they felt he did more for the poor people of the community than the government.

The Culture War is over. The Drug War should be as well...

"...Hundreds of guys depended on Paulie and he got a piece of everything they made. And it was tribute, just like in the old country, except they were doing it here in America. And all they got from Paulie was protection from other guys looking to rip them off. And that's what it's all about. That's what the FBI could never understand. That what Paulie and the organization does is offer protection for people who can't go to the cops. That's it. That's all it is. They're like the police department for wiseguys." - Goodfellas

 

[Roberto]

Long read but worth it if you care to know.

http://www.democracynow.org/2014/11/13/are_mexicos_missing_students_the_victims

 

[Roberto]

Roberto, with all due respect, I resent this comment. "Criminal US drug user", what the fuck does that even mean? I can assure you that I am not a criminal, however I do and have used marijuana for a long time.

Well Joe you have to come to terms with the fact that, if you have been using MJ, it has been illegal hence by definition you are a criminal. Hey I am not making this up nor do I support it. All of us who have used it know it was a criminal act. That's what the fuck it means so light up and relax.

Come to grips with the fact that you may have inadverdantly and indirectly funded the death of a child in Mexico. Now don't piss your pants about that statement, I did not say you did anything to intentionally hurt someone. The mayhem here has been funded by US dollars from drug sales and from the US government.

I'm not gonna respond , item by item to the rest of your post. I don't have a problem with MJ, never have had one. I never specified a drug and from all reports more money is involved in other drugs currently, cocaine and meth for example.


The irrelevant killing of 43 students for no apparent reason is absolutely unacceptable.

Joe with all due respect I resent this comment. There is NOTHING irrelevant about these murders. It is totally relevant to the drug culture and ALL of it's aspects. Unacceptable, completely.


Marijuana sales can only be indirectly linked to a crime like that. As previously mentioned, there is no practical reason why those people were killed.

The practical reason emanates out of the need for the Mexico Mafia to protect their ability to transport and sell drugs, most of which sales are in the US, hence the connection I make. The Mayor and wife are mobbed up and using drug sales money to build a financial empire and garner political influence to control murder and subjagate people so he can continue his 'business'. Those murders are directly and indirectly conected to that. That's pretty obvious. Drug user buys drugs, money goes to the mayor, mayor buys influence, bullets and guns with the money. Mayor used influence to kill the students to protect his 'business'. You think this was a totally random act ???

The point being made is that the Cartels have gone absolutely mad.

Things have been bad here for many years but swept under the carpet by Mexico and ignored by the US. In fact Iguala student have been shot and killed on several occasions in the past with those events unreported and unsolved. I for one an happy to see news coverage and the international reaction of the Iguala murders and their connection to the drug business.

I agree with you 100%, clearly, Mexico needs to find a way to solve the problem of organized corruption. The change needs to start at the lowest level and get rid of the crooked alcaldes who steal and support corruption up teh politial ladder to enable that.

The American mafia was initially a community organizer for people who couldn't protect themselves, who wouldn't have been helped by the system.

Tal vez, but quickly morphed into an organization involved in every sphere of illegal activity possible, and yes enabled by corruption in the US.

So Joe, unless you are buying legal weed these days, irrespective of where it comes from, do you think the money you spend is going for public works someplace? You know play grounds for children, free school lunches, medical care for the indigent,, stuff like that ??Hell no it goes to a criminal supplyer who uses it to fund more criminal activity, unless of course he puts it into the stock market !!! Ja ja ja ja

 

[Luna]

When the big and I mean big weed growing operations start cranking up ( the first sale by the ton is happening in Washington via auction this month) in Oregon and in Arizona after we legalize it in 2016 we will see what the cartels do. Lets face it their product sucks and carries the social stigma of being "blood weed". That needs to be played up in the pop culture media and maybe a certification program can take root like "fair Trade" A bale of weed with a " No Muerte" stamp on it signifying a violence free production and distribution model would demand a higher price. or the crooks running Mexico could just legalize the herb too.

Legal in 2016 - About time

 

[Luna]

Roberto, with all due respect, I resent this comment. "Criminal US drug user", what the fuck does that even mean? I can assure you that I am not a criminal, however I do and have used marijuana for a long time. Secondly, as I've said before, nobody that I know uses marijuana from "down South". Using their weed would be like using alcohol made out of potatoes in your bedroom closet. In fact, I can't even find weed from Mexico if I tried. Like seriously impossible. The marijuana that the vast majority of consumers use is grown domestically in the US now. Especially in the SW states. Now, I understand that in the heartland of the US it is pry the opposite. You can find shitty Mexican shwag but you can't find good. Clearly the answer here is that it is completely ridiculous after a 40 year war to keep marijuana illegal. The only war where the SYSTEM has systematically made weed CHEAPER and more readily available. Lastly, I do agree with DirtSurfer. The irrelevant killing of 43 students for no apparent reason is absolutely unacceptable. Marijuana sales can only be indirectly linked to a crime like that. As previously mentioned, there is no practical reason why those people were killed. The point being made is that the Cartels have gone absolutely mad. The American mafia was initially a community organizer for people who couldn't protect themselves, who wouldn't have been helped by the system. I'm not saying that drugs should be legal. I am saying that marijuana should be however. I am saying that the war on drugs should end. I am saying that Mexico does need to face the problem of organized corruption because Government does have a role in society to protect it's citizens. I've watched and read numerous accounts of how Pablo Escobar treated the people of Medellin. At no point did he ever feel the need to kill innocent people like 43 students. In fact, when he was killed and buried the citizens were extremely upset because they felt he did more for the poor people of the community than the government.

The Culture War is over. The Drug War should be as well...

"...Hundreds of guys depended on Paulie and he got a piece of everything they made. And it was tribute, just like in the old country, except they were doing it here in America. And all they got from Paulie was protection from other guys looking to rip them off. And that's what it's all about. That's what the FBI could never understand. That what Paulie and the organization does is offer protection for people who can't go to the cops. That's it. That's all it is. They're like the police department for wiseguys." - Goodfellas

Whether you have a card or not, either way I for one do not think you are a criminal and respect your right to do whatever the hell you want.

 

[jerry]

So Joe, unless you are buying legal weed these days, irrespective of where it comes from, do you think the money you spend is going for public works someplace? You know play grounds for children, free school lunches, medical care for the indigent,, stuff like that ??Hell no it goes to a criminal supplyer who uses it to fund ...

..most weed guys are just regular people.They use the money to pad their shrinking middle class paycheck,go out to eat,buy a nicer car...this money is a shot in the arm to local economies...I think Joe is wrong about the Mexican weed usage in the states.It makes up 70% of the cartels income.It comes past my ranch one or twice a week...maybe 400 lbs. at a time.Someone is buying the crap.

 

[InkaRoads]

everything that comes must go!!! look at Colombia everybody thought the same thing of them now they are cartel free basically, well they just move a bit north (Mexico), the next move for the cartels will be in USA, might as well be where the demand is, LAST MINUTES NEWS: Cartels having finding their way into USA since a decade or more ago and they have been growing and producing their drugs in USA soil, it will be in the near future that the USA will be the first manufacturer of illegal drugs in the world and also the first consumer and the rest of the world will be rid of drugs!!

the difference between the rest of the world and the USA is that the news in USA are given to the citizens after going thru a great length of censorship while the rest of the world gets the news as they happen here and now without blinders, if you do your search you will find mass killings and beheadings and all that jazz right here at home committed by USA folks just kike you!!

Sorry Rubbertoe but there are thousands if not millions of people that are regular POT smokers that do it for one reason or another, a lot of them for health reasons, the majority of those buying it in the black market are not criminals just "pot user" if you see those as criminals then what will the rational of legalizing marijuana be? legalize crime???? I mean really look at MexicoJoe does he looks like a criminal to you?????

 

[dirtsurfer]

Six more states vote to legalize pot usage and the retailers will have to grow their own. This cuts the cartels out. I think all drugs should be legalized, taxed to death and then eliminate income taxes …….my dream!

 

[dirtsurfer]

"the difference between the rest of the world and the USA is that the news in USA are given to the citizens after going thru a great length of censorship while the rest of the world gets the news as they happen here and now without blinders, if you do your search you will find mass killings and beheadings and all that jazz right here at home committed by USA folks just nike you!!"

I know a lot of police, detectives and newspeople including my daughter. No one ever has said they have news stories that have been censored. In the U.S. everyone has a smart phone and news of events happens lighting fast through the news networks and by local people. I call BS on this comment.

 

[dirtsurfer]

To say that mass murderers, torturers and beheaders compare to an individual drug user or that illegal drug usage in the U.S. causes Mexicans to committ heinous crimes is preposterous: " wow! The norteamericanos are buying weed so I think it justifies me killing students".

Re-read what I wrote. It's short and to the point so you should have no problem understanding it, but if you need an explanation I'll be glad to oblige. Your 'misunderstanding " is typical of many US folk many of whom depend on the supply from the south.[/QUOTE]

Roberto: I would like an explanation because I truly do not understand unless you mean that the demand in the U.S. creates insanity in Mexico drug cartels who commit mass murder on an unprecedented level, many times against innocent non participants, then I would agree with you : http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/mexicodrugwar.html

 

[jerry]

Sorry Rubbertoe but there are thousands if not millions of people that are regular POT smokers that do it for one reason or another, a lot of them for health reasons, the majority of those buying it in the black market are not criminals just "pot user" if you see those as criminals then what will the rational of legalizing marijuana be? legalize crime???? I mean really look at MexicoJoe does he looks like a criminal to you?????[/QUOTE]
E. Mexican Joe may not be a criminal but he has some Gansta in him,that is for sure

 

[Roberto]

Y'all are crackin me up.

Some simple off the cuff definitions :

Criminal - A person who commits a criminal act, a crime .
A Crime - A Violationof a law.

There are federal laws defining possession of illegal drugs as a crime.
If you are in possesion of illegal drugs you are by definition a criminal.
Simple Aristotilian logic

A 'Pot user" is by definition a criminal (albeit unconvicted true) due to the law prohibiting the use of pot, whether it's a hobby or a habit is irrelevant. Clearly this does not hold completely true in states that have legalized it, but still illegal by Federal lqw.

Roberto: I would like an explanation because I truly do not understand unless you mean that the demand in the U.S. creates insanity in Mexico drug cartels who commit mass murder on an unprecedented level, many times against innocent non participants, then I would agree with you : http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/mexicodrugwar.html

Dirt;
Hey I said nothing about insanity in Mexico, mass murder, etc. You are illustrating why this is such a difficult problem to solve. It is a complex issue and cannot be resolve by changing just one element of a multifaceted problem. I feel that the US has sat back snorting and puffing and reacting with horror to how bad those Mexicans are without taking one iota of responsibility for that tragedy. No I am not saying the users are completely responsible, but surely you must agree they have SOME responsibility.

This was brought into sharp focus for me when I read an article where an US college student described coming to the realization that the money she spent on drugs for only very occasion use was probably going to support the horrible violence in Mexico. She said it was a personal choice and she was glad she made it. A simple, direct, honest statement.

 

[jerry]

I don't know Roberto,there is a hard edge to theMexican crime from all the macho bullshit.The other thing that has really ramped up the violence is the cell phone and Internet.It has allowed people from all factions to jump the line and cut each other out.People get pissed and people end up dead.Plus the shear amount of money involved.A group of Burreros humping 300 lbs of weed won't kill a guy that rats them out the first time but double that amount and turn them in again and the rules change....as my neighbor Bob found out a few years ago.

 

[Roberto]

Don't get me wrong. The violence here is all pervasive and unforgiving. I don't offer excuses for it as there are none. If you are in the wrong place at the wrong time or mis-identified, well bend over and kiss your a** goodby. Especially if you are Mexican. And if you are foolish enough to want to play with them, you might not have time to bend over !!