Fishing in the Sea of Cortez
- Thread starter Roberto
- Start date
Does anyone know where the panga fishermen who launch at La Pinta go to fish, and what their fishing methods are? I'd always thought most of the real damage to the Sea of Cortez fishery was being done farther south and on the Baja side where there are way more fish.
This is a really interesting development.
This is a really interesting development.
Mexico Joe
Cholla Bay 4 Life
That honestly ruined my day!!!!!!!!! Why are these bastards so GD greedy and OBVIOUSLY uneducated!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Im going to go puke....
moore_rb
Stay Thirsty My Friends
The La Pinta Pangueros fish around the island, and the reefs to the south and west of the island. On our last trip down in mid-March my friend hooked a rope that had a 2-liter bottle tied to it. Naturally we had to haul it up and see what was at the end- I was hoping for another spare anchor for my collection, but it was a trap (similar to a smaller model of the crab-pots on deadliest catch) - it had a couple spotted bass and a couple fist-sized Brown crabs in it. We sent it back down and left it alone.
We have also been approached several times on trips to the island by the Pangueros, and they always ask if we could give them a couple fish to cut into bait for their gillnets or traps. I won't give any of my catch to gillnetters, but if they are fishing with short lines or small traps then I might toss them a sierra or two.
This whole issue has so many negative facets- even though there is seemingly still plenty of fish to be caught, the Sea of Cortez is waning in it's fish producing glory compared to just 20-30 short years ago. Commercial fishing has gotten more efficient, and less lucrative - a deadly combination since the efficiency aspect allows you to do more damage to populations, and the less lucrative aspect REQUIRES you to do more damage in order to make any money.
Combine all this with the fact that the economic slowdown has shifted more jobs away from construction, retail, and tourism support back to basic jobs in agriculture and fishing, and I fear that the pressure will only increase even further.
Thanks for the link, Roberto... I made a donation to support Sea Watch's effort.
I wasn't going to post this, but...
Last trip to Lobos, we got back in from a fair day with a few chunky yellowtail and a decent grouper. Ted suggested we walk down the beach and check out what the pangueros had been catching. There were probably 15 pangas beached, cleaning fish. All kinds of fish. A few baqueta, some gold spots. A yellowtail here and there. But what amazed me the most were the sharks. Many, many sharks. Small sand sharks. The women were finning them on the beach and basically tossing the carcasses. A lot of them were pregnant and giving live birth. Little hand-sized sharks, freshly born, rolling in the surf line. Along with many eels. Snowflake eels, Morays, others I don't even know. Just tossed aside as bycatch.
I'm a fisherman. I have no problem with people catching or cleaning fish, but frankly? The sight of this made me sick to my stomach. Yeah, everybody needs to make a living, I know. But the sheer amount of waste being generated was incredible. I also know that it's nothing compared to the bycatch one shrimp boat generates.
Still, seeing all those sharks being finned and the babies struggling in the surf? Unbelievable. The Cortez is not the rich treasure chest it once was. The population has moved on to decimating species they wouldn't of bothered with in the past. And as the fishing gets worse, the need of the locals to take whatever they can catch only grows.
Very, very sad.
Last trip to Lobos, we got back in from a fair day with a few chunky yellowtail and a decent grouper. Ted suggested we walk down the beach and check out what the pangueros had been catching. There were probably 15 pangas beached, cleaning fish. All kinds of fish. A few baqueta, some gold spots. A yellowtail here and there. But what amazed me the most were the sharks. Many, many sharks. Small sand sharks. The women were finning them on the beach and basically tossing the carcasses. A lot of them were pregnant and giving live birth. Little hand-sized sharks, freshly born, rolling in the surf line. Along with many eels. Snowflake eels, Morays, others I don't even know. Just tossed aside as bycatch.
I'm a fisherman. I have no problem with people catching or cleaning fish, but frankly? The sight of this made me sick to my stomach. Yeah, everybody needs to make a living, I know. But the sheer amount of waste being generated was incredible. I also know that it's nothing compared to the bycatch one shrimp boat generates.
Still, seeing all those sharks being finned and the babies struggling in the surf? Unbelievable. The Cortez is not the rich treasure chest it once was. The population has moved on to decimating species they wouldn't of bothered with in the past. And as the fishing gets worse, the need of the locals to take whatever they can catch only grows.
Very, very sad.
rockyptjoe
Guest
Stuart....what is the market for the fins? I remember back in the 80's and early 90's the Mexican government permitted the Japanese processing ships to just about decimate the shark population in the Sea of Cortez...for the shark fins..... Are the Japanese the market again?
I'm not a fisherman....but I do enjoy seafood....and it appears from the earlier article that the Mexicans don't have a clue in terms of sustaining the fishing industry.....a mix of greed and corruption.....
I'm not a fisherman....but I do enjoy seafood....and it appears from the earlier article that the Mexicans don't have a clue in terms of sustaining the fishing industry.....a mix of greed and corruption.....
moore_rb
Stay Thirsty My Friends
I don't mean this in an insensitive fashion, but more in an intellectual sense: the facts presented by the declining fish populations suggest that the Mexicans, indeed, do not have a clue.
How many of you have been caught in traffic jams due to the fishermen blockading the road every time the government tries to impose a policy to correct these issues?
The commercial fishermen are running the show, and that is ok so long as they are being responsible.... which they are not, IMHO. They are instead resorting to bullying and thuggery.. but hey- it's working for the drug cartels, right?
A person has the right to survive, but only fair markets can educate them on how to thrive.
How many of you have been caught in traffic jams due to the fishermen blockading the road every time the government tries to impose a policy to correct these issues?
The commercial fishermen are running the show, and that is ok so long as they are being responsible.... which they are not, IMHO. They are instead resorting to bullying and thuggery.. but hey- it's working for the drug cartels, right?
A person has the right to survive, but only fair markets can educate them on how to thrive.
dmcauley
Guest
The problem is that they worry about TODAY and as long as there is a market for something, the ignorant will sell. It is not hard to sell shark fins.
The pangueros are not really commercial fishermen as many of them do not even want to pay for a license and to hell w/ the rules. Boycott the black market and go to the packing plants to buy your fish and shrimp and you will be taking a step in the right direction.
The pangueros are not really commercial fishermen as many of them do not even want to pay for a license and to hell w/ the rules. Boycott the black market and go to the packing plants to buy your fish and shrimp and you will be taking a step in the right direction.
I'm highly uneducated about the sea and ocean conservation (although looking to self-improve), but I do know a thing or two about wildlife conservation both here and in Mexico. In Mexico the obstacle isn't getting Mexicans to embrace a conservation ethic and pass protective laws or set aside preserves. The problem is lack of enforcement. I don't see a solution for that because an ineffective criminal justice system is at the root of many of Mexico's problems. If it were that easy to solve, they'd solve it for other reasons.
"If I don't catch it, someone else will."
The proliferation of squid is undeniable. The pangueros hit Lobos in vast numbers this year, camped out on the beaches, filling their pangas with squid each night. Large refrigerated semi-trucks waited on the beach to load the catch. I'm assuming to take it to Guaymas for processing. And the squid are only increasing in size and range because of the lack of natural predators. Not only in the Sea of Cortez, but all along the Pacific coast, as far north as Washington and British Columbia, where they were previously unheard of. The checks and balances for this species has definitely been upset in their favor. Unfortunately, they are eating machines and will devour everything in their path, leaving nothing for other species.
There's no easy answers to this problem and it will only get worse, until the squid eventually eat everything and starve to death.
jerry
Guest
The locals were making 300-500 bucks a night....camped out from all over mexico to try to get on a boat...dangerous too one sunk under a full load and the squid ate the men
moore_rb
Stay Thirsty My Friends
Poetic justice is probably too harsh a term...
Let's just call it "undeniable irony" shall we?
Someone needs to translate "The Tragedy of the Commons" into Spanish.
From Wikpedia:
The tragedy of the commons is a dilemma arising from the situation in which multiple individuals, acting independently and rationally consulting their own self-interest, will ultimately deplete a shared limited resource even when it is clear that it is not in anyone's long-term interest for this to happen. This dilemma was first described in an influential article titled "The Tragedy of the Commons," written by Garrett Hardin and first published in the journal Science in 1968.[1]
Then we could take up the North American Wildlife Conservation Model, which asserts that the nation's fish and wildlife are held in trust for all citizens, harvest opportunity is allocated to individuals by law and regulation, regulations including seasons and bag and creel limits are guided by science, all citizens have equal opportunity to harvest fish and wildlife, frivolous destruction of fish and wildlife is prohibited, and commercial exploitation of fish and wildlife is banned. This system was developed in the late 1800s - early 1900s by elites (gentlemen sportsmen-naturalists) such as Theodore Roosevelt and others most of us have never heard of. Its creation was in response to threatened extinction of the nation's buffalo, antelope, elk and other species that had already become locally or regionally extinct. This system is maintained by individuals who desire the continued ability to harvest fish and wildlife and are willing to pay user fees to finance the science and enforcement needed to guarantee that. While incomplete - it focuses only on species people want to harvest - it has been the backbone of the world's most successful fish and wildlife conservation program. A federal Endangered Species Act completes the program by addressing the species that would otherwise be ignored or even persecuted (wolves, grizzlies, pupfish, etc). While all other continents are seeing their wildlife continue to disappear despite protective legislation, most major wildlife species in the US and Canada are increasing both their numbers and range. You hear a lot of doom and gloom from organizations who raise funds by peddling doom and gloom, but the truth is that conservation is working better in the US and Canada than anywhere else on the planet.
A key element of the system's success is giving everyone a stake in seeing that the regulations are followed and incentivizing all participants to be volunteer fish and game wardens by reporting violators. Cheaters are stealing from everyone because everyone shares ownership of the resource. While Robin Hood can shoot the King's deer and keep the approval of the peasantry, he ought not be a game hog with the PEOPLE's deer lest the sheriff gets a tip that Robin needs to be watched closely.
I see at least 3 obstacles to transplanting this system to Mexico. In the case of land animals, Mexico has bought into the European tradition that wildlife belongs to the landowner. That's hard to break, and US wildlife biologists working with Mexican biologists have not had much success selling the concept of public ownership of all wildlife. But that obstacle doesn't exist as far as I know in the Sea of Cortez where land ownership shouldn't come into play. What remains as obstacles is a probable lack of confidence that regulations would be enforced, and the lack of a political lobby demanding science-driven regulation.
Just a few years back the redfish along Louisiana's shoreline nearly became extinct from commercial harvest after a certain culinary celebrity made blackened redfish hugely popular and the nation's restaurants were clamoring for it. The Louisiana Sportsmen's Association succeeded in restricting redfish harvest to sport harvest only. Now if you want blackened redfish you'll need to go catch one. That's the kind of grass roots influence that's needed.
But unless people believe regulations will be enforced, they won't follow them. I believe the biggest challenge is in building confidence among the pangueras and other commmercial fishermen that regulations will be enforced and that the program will work if they do their part.
From Wikpedia:
The tragedy of the commons is a dilemma arising from the situation in which multiple individuals, acting independently and rationally consulting their own self-interest, will ultimately deplete a shared limited resource even when it is clear that it is not in anyone's long-term interest for this to happen. This dilemma was first described in an influential article titled "The Tragedy of the Commons," written by Garrett Hardin and first published in the journal Science in 1968.[1]
Then we could take up the North American Wildlife Conservation Model, which asserts that the nation's fish and wildlife are held in trust for all citizens, harvest opportunity is allocated to individuals by law and regulation, regulations including seasons and bag and creel limits are guided by science, all citizens have equal opportunity to harvest fish and wildlife, frivolous destruction of fish and wildlife is prohibited, and commercial exploitation of fish and wildlife is banned. This system was developed in the late 1800s - early 1900s by elites (gentlemen sportsmen-naturalists) such as Theodore Roosevelt and others most of us have never heard of. Its creation was in response to threatened extinction of the nation's buffalo, antelope, elk and other species that had already become locally or regionally extinct. This system is maintained by individuals who desire the continued ability to harvest fish and wildlife and are willing to pay user fees to finance the science and enforcement needed to guarantee that. While incomplete - it focuses only on species people want to harvest - it has been the backbone of the world's most successful fish and wildlife conservation program. A federal Endangered Species Act completes the program by addressing the species that would otherwise be ignored or even persecuted (wolves, grizzlies, pupfish, etc). While all other continents are seeing their wildlife continue to disappear despite protective legislation, most major wildlife species in the US and Canada are increasing both their numbers and range. You hear a lot of doom and gloom from organizations who raise funds by peddling doom and gloom, but the truth is that conservation is working better in the US and Canada than anywhere else on the planet.
A key element of the system's success is giving everyone a stake in seeing that the regulations are followed and incentivizing all participants to be volunteer fish and game wardens by reporting violators. Cheaters are stealing from everyone because everyone shares ownership of the resource. While Robin Hood can shoot the King's deer and keep the approval of the peasantry, he ought not be a game hog with the PEOPLE's deer lest the sheriff gets a tip that Robin needs to be watched closely.
I see at least 3 obstacles to transplanting this system to Mexico. In the case of land animals, Mexico has bought into the European tradition that wildlife belongs to the landowner. That's hard to break, and US wildlife biologists working with Mexican biologists have not had much success selling the concept of public ownership of all wildlife. But that obstacle doesn't exist as far as I know in the Sea of Cortez where land ownership shouldn't come into play. What remains as obstacles is a probable lack of confidence that regulations would be enforced, and the lack of a political lobby demanding science-driven regulation.
Just a few years back the redfish along Louisiana's shoreline nearly became extinct from commercial harvest after a certain culinary celebrity made blackened redfish hugely popular and the nation's restaurants were clamoring for it. The Louisiana Sportsmen's Association succeeded in restricting redfish harvest to sport harvest only. Now if you want blackened redfish you'll need to go catch one. That's the kind of grass roots influence that's needed.
But unless people believe regulations will be enforced, they won't follow them. I believe the biggest challenge is in building confidence among the pangueras and other commmercial fishermen that regulations will be enforced and that the program will work if they do their part.
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Roberto
Guest
This is an interesting issue, from a systems thinking point of view. It seems to me that you cannot talk about the issue without incorporating poverty of the resident folk in the area. The big operations, Japanese mostly I take it, are corporate greed driven most likely. Many Mexicans derive a living from the sea, in one way or another. They want what you got, some security, a roof over their head, food on the table. In the US we are willing to accept regulation because the impact on individuals is minimal. Mexicans don't tend to see these issues in an abstract form, it's food on the table. Call it stomach driven regulation not science driven regulation. Poor people don't tend to have high, abstract ideals. Cutting the rainforests has the same issues.
If it came down to a choice of killing the last of a species or letting your family starve which would you choose when no viable alternatives are available? The last of a species has been dying off for eons, the earth still survives. It's part of the process. Just because humans have identified this as a problem doesn't mean it's a problem.
Oh yeah, to paraphrase a famous royal: "Let them eat Squid"
If it came down to a choice of killing the last of a species or letting your family starve which would you choose when no viable alternatives are available? The last of a species has been dying off for eons, the earth still survives. It's part of the process. Just because humans have identified this as a problem doesn't mean it's a problem.
Oh yeah, to paraphrase a famous royal: "Let them eat Squid"
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jerry
Guest
Kenny
Guest
If this was about the dying off of a species, this would be a whole different discussion, but it's not. This is about the loss of a whole Marine ecosystem if this trend continues.
Roberto, with your analogy I suppose we'd even kill and eat our best friend to feed our family, or maybe even the children's Grandparents. Now if humans identified this cannibalism as a problem, would you still say
:notme:
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Roberto
Guest
Very good. I did not mean to suggest that poverty is the entire, complete, total cause of this problem I am merely suggesting it needs to be taken into account when you attempt a solution. It is one important motivation that creats this situation. Not the total motivation. Think of water flowing in a stream or river, you cannot just stop it completely with a dam. The water will win, that flow, 'motivation', has to go someplace.
Kenny, you will sleep more lightly next visit !!! Cannibalism is a very interesting subject as well. It has occured much more that most think and not in the distant past either. I've been reading some anectodal first person stories about WWII. Some of the descriptions of the conditions in the S. Pacific for prisoners of war are horrifying. One survivor reported that they, the few survivors were the evil devils and those that died were the good.
Kenny, you will sleep more lightly next visit !!! Cannibalism is a very interesting subject as well. It has occured much more that most think and not in the distant past either. I've been reading some anectodal first person stories about WWII. Some of the descriptions of the conditions in the S. Pacific for prisoners of war are horrifying. One survivor reported that they, the few survivors were the evil devils and those that died were the good.
jerry
Guest
http://terrapeninsular.blogspot.com/2009/05/protecting-land-using-zofemat.html A friend of kenny and mines brother founded this project...good combination of ideas