128 people, 15 miles W of Lukeville
- Thread starter Mexico Joe
- Start date
A book was written about a group that died trying to cross in that same area a few years ago.
The Devil's Highway: A True Story by Luis Alberto Urrea
The Devil's Highway: A True Story by Luis Alberto Urrea
To quote Janet Napolitano, head of Homeland Security: "Like I said before, the border is safe and secure."
There you go, straight from the horse's mouth. Nothing to see here, move along. It's just a shame how many will actually die in the desert before she will eat those words.
There you go, straight from the horse's mouth. Nothing to see here, move along. It's just a shame how many will actually die in the desert before she will eat those words.
T
Tomcat
Guest
I personally saw a event like this happened on my first trip to Rocky point last October. But it was more like 28 not 128.... I was taking a break from riding my motorcycle at the little desert camp ground just a few miles north of Lukeville and one minute it was so peaceful with no one in sight and the next minute 3 choppers were in the sky above me. Green border patrol trucks racing up and down the highway and some driving through the dusty desert. One chopper circle me a few hundred feet above my head and I took off my helmet and waved and I guess with him seeing my blond hair he moved on across the desert circle and seemed to be pointing out people from the group that had just crossed the border to the ground patrols.
I fired up my bike and headed back down the highway and headed south to lukeville and passed a dozen boarder patrols stopped and people hand cuffed behind there trucks face down. It still crosses my mind how that peaceful place can one minute be so quite then the next minute like a war zone... then a hour later I bet you would find that place in the desert totally peaceful again like nothing ever happened !!!!!
I fired up my bike and headed back down the highway and headed south to lukeville and passed a dozen boarder patrols stopped and people hand cuffed behind there trucks face down. It still crosses my mind how that peaceful place can one minute be so quite then the next minute like a war zone... then a hour later I bet you would find that place in the desert totally peaceful again like nothing ever happened !!!!!
Mexico Joe
Cholla Bay 4 Life
Do you feel the situation was better 2+ years ago? I dont think thats what JNap meant by SAFE and secure. I know as well as you and everybody else that goes to RP on a regular or semi regular basis that the current administration has most definitely at least made an effort on our side of the border in regards to south bound traffic. I dont by any way think the problem is solved and or better. Im saying based on my travels to RP in the last 4 or so years and this would be about 10 trips a year, that the current admin in the last two years has done more than previous in terms of creating more of a presence on this side. I know that Ive read on here somewhere comments about how big of assholes these ICE guys are in lukeville and they make me feel guilty and I dont have any weapons or 10 G's on me. However thats exactly what I mean by a stepped up presence. The article also states that with stepped up presence and the use of new technology the border patrol can now patrol places and areas that were too remote and out of reach in years previous. Did you want Janet to make sure Maria and Eduardo are properly hydrated and have plenty of food for their voyage? Im not sure she will eat her words because Hondurans are dying of dehydration in the middle of July. She might eat her words if Osama "yo mama" Bin Laden rides a horse across the border and nukes the Palo Verde Plant or Phoenix or something but I doubt thats going to happen. Obviously you have an underlying issue with JNap. Do you feel she isnt doing her job well? I asked before as well, do you think we are doing more or less than the previous admin and if so why? I guess I dont really understand the people will die in the desert and she will eat her words comment. Im pretty sure these people cross at their own risk. Do you remember what the last Homeland Security Director said about the border? I dont remember either because they werent saying anything nor were they doing anything.
Yanno, I don't want to get into a political pissing match over this. The simple fact is those words are lip service, nothing more. If the border were secure, would a group of 128 people be able to just saunter on over it? Me thinks not. If the border were secure, would ICE Agent Terry have been gunned down near Green Valley? Me thinks not. If the border were secure, would the BLM be posting signs near I-8/Vekol Valley saying don't enter this area due to the danger of drug/human smuggling taking place there? Ask Sheriff Paul Babeu if the problem has gotten better or worse in the last two years. He's going to tell you it's gotten worse; a lot worse. Not only are they dealing with the cartel/smugglers themselves, they now have a new danger from heavily armed rip-crews that are out there trying to prey on the cartel/smugglers. Even masquerading as police officers in fake police vehicles.
I don't consider that 'secure' by any stretch of the imagination. Do you? As far as my comment about "how many will die in the desert," I was taking ALL of this into account. Not just poor Juan and Juanita heading north to try make a better living for themselves. Oh, there will be plenty of them that end up taking a dirt nap out there. But, there will be others that die, like Agent Terry, who are just trying to put an end to this madness, too.
Are the Feds making an effort? Sure they are. Is it enough? Apparently not. IN MY OPINION, not enough to profess that the border is "safe and secure." It isn't. Not by a long shot.
I don't consider that 'secure' by any stretch of the imagination. Do you? As far as my comment about "how many will die in the desert," I was taking ALL of this into account. Not just poor Juan and Juanita heading north to try make a better living for themselves. Oh, there will be plenty of them that end up taking a dirt nap out there. But, there will be others that die, like Agent Terry, who are just trying to put an end to this madness, too.
Are the Feds making an effort? Sure they are. Is it enough? Apparently not. IN MY OPINION, not enough to profess that the border is "safe and secure." It isn't. Not by a long shot.
rockyptjoe
Guest
What does asking everyone going INTO Mexico if they have any guns or are taking $10K in have to do with securing the border? The recent arrests of the "straw" buyers of weapons probably prevented more guns from getting into Mexico and the hands of the cartels. My last trip down, there were at lest 5-6 heavily armed agents watching/questioning all of us gringos leaving AZ to go into Mexico. They could have been used more effectively looking in the other direction!
Wood Spinner
Guest
I have said this before and there is still no change. My son farms very close to the Cartel trafic patern going North in the Vekol area. Nightly when he is out there working he sees several quads moving North and they are not police of any kind, guess who they are, got it, Cartel smuglers. If he sees them where are the police?
rockyptjoe
Guest
Bill....I have the same question....there have been news crews out there covering the problem....with Border Patrol agents as "tourguides". If we know where they are coming in...why can't we catch/stop them? We have UAV's partrolling the border areas, with infra red.....a couple of Apache helicopters should do the trick!
jerry
Guest
Unlike you city slickers i live 20 miles from the border on a major smuggling route (my neighbors brother was killed last year by being in the wrong place at the wrong time,...still the traffic is down 90% coming through the mountains behind my house.Something has worked or it's just the jobs are gone but you are wrong if you say the border is a easy barrier these days.
Mexico Joe
Cholla Bay 4 Life
You entered a political pissing match when you quoted the director of homeland security with a sarcastic undertone. I actually agree with you on the quote being lip service because that is exactly what it is. When JNap says the border is "safe and secure", what she is really saying, "we are doing more than previous administrations and we are trying to do more, nothing can be fixed in TWO years, and we cant be perfect, thank you". I don't know if somewhere we got lost in translation but 128 people got caught, as in didn't succeed. Am I missing something here? When creating opinion or hypothesis on certain phenomena it is obviously crucial to understand what VARIABLES are. Based on all the extenuating circumstances or variables I dont think anyone can say definitively that the border is more or less secure right now. In my opinion the reason why certain areas have become more active isn't because we aren't doing enough or what we're doing isn't working, it's because what we are doing in certain areas has had an effect and has changed behavior. I think that the fundamental difference of opinion between you and I is the fact that we have completely different definitions of SECURE. Your definition of SECURE is a 30ft 1,969 mile long wall. My definition is continually improving the situation as much as we can within reasonable expectation. I don't think it's reasonable to believe building a 1,969 mile long wall will ever happen. We aren't even capable of refinishing roadways or creating new infrastructure in terms of high speed rail. Getting the light rail in phoenix was a tough enough prospect and look how long that took. I think it's unreasonable to believe the problem is ever going to be fixed with high expectations like that. If we believe that doing something today even if it's as much as we can do, is more than doing nothing than the problem over a period of time will undoubtedly get better. The question is with your high expectations will you be satisfied? ICE agent Terry being murdered is obviously unfortunate and sad. Once again, not ever having another border agent die is probably an unreasonable expectation. It's obviously unfortunate but when making progress things like this will inevitably happen. I'm not going to ask Paul Babeu anything because I'm already familiar with him and how he feels. Actually, I think he was on the news last night spewing more fire out of his mouth. When making a point you "prolly" don't want to back up your point with someone who doesn't have any fact, however only questionable opinion. I say this because Mr. Babeu has made some outrageous claims of his own and stood by the claim that one of his deputies reportedly had a shoot out in the Vekol valley in which you mention. This is the part that I particularly like, "After the incident, numerous law enforcement experts and others contended that Puroll fabricated the entire incident based on physical evidence and inconsistencies in his story. Babeu stood behind the deputy's account, and a Pinal County Sheriff's investigation concluded that the incident was authentic." Furthermore, you are telling me that Mexicans are now impersonating AMERICAN police and are driving fake Police cars around the Vekol valley in Casa Grande and Florence? Im pretty sure that is a federal offense, impersonating a lawmen. Other than Mr. Babeu, where has this information been factually produced? It's very easy for me to believe that the Mexicans can and are doing whatever they want in Mexico but for you to tell me that Mexicans are now impersonating AZ cops and driving fake AZ cop cars is a little far fetched for me man. Doesn't masquerading mean attracting attention to ones self? EX. The stripper masqueraded around in front of me with her sexy red thong... sorry. If these people were masquerading around in AZ police uniforms and cars wouldn't this be national news? I'm sorry if I can't find Mr Babeu or his understudy Louie Puroll credible. You said you didn't find that to be secure and then you asked me if I did. Once again, I think that goes back to the point that we obviously have a different opinion of what secure is. You did acknowledge that the current administration is doing "something", however not enough to satisfy you. Other than a 30ft high 1,969 mile fence what would please you?
Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/community/pinal/articles/2011/01/05/20110105pinal-county-deputy-comments-investigation.html#ixzz1F1L7IH28
Mexico Joe
Cholla Bay 4 Life
Investigating and arresting these straw buyers is another example of how we are clearly doing something. Is it enough to please the critics, obviously not thats why they are critics. For you to say they could have been used better if they looked the other direction is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you and I dont have weapons or money on us doesnt mean that stuff is potentially coming through there. I mean really?
Mexico Joe
Cholla Bay 4 Life
He must be located on Cocaine highway and cartel street, I know that area. Lawl, the cartel traffic pattern?! If your son knows about the cartel traffic pattern why isn't Paul Babeu out there shutting it down? Hes pry busy with a couple other desert gun battles...
Wood Spinner
Guest
You have to remember the employment impact of drugs. The drug cartells have thousands of people on the payroll to fight the drug trafic people and to distribute the product. The Homeland security, Sheriff ,Police etc. all have thousands of people on their forces to fight the Cartel and controll drug distribution To that you add the money distributed in the USA and Mexico for graft.
Now this makes an enormous amount of profit for Mexico and the USA. With this in mind how hard do you think Mexico is realy working to stop the manufacturing of product? In the USA the drug enforcement people work hard to justify their jobs by catching the bad guys and getting the drugs off the streets. The more we pull off the streets the more demand on the growers and distributors and a better price and more profit from what does get through.
Drugs have been here as long as there have been records. Drugs and prostituion are here now and in my opinion will be here forever. So tax them by changing the system of taxation
Change our tax system from income tax to sales tax and everyone will be taxed and taxed fairly based on income. Prostitute does not declare income but they do spend their money so they get taxed. Drug dealer does not declare their income but they do spend their money so they pay their share. May be with all this extra income the States and the Fed could pay their bills and get us back on track
Now this makes an enormous amount of profit for Mexico and the USA. With this in mind how hard do you think Mexico is realy working to stop the manufacturing of product? In the USA the drug enforcement people work hard to justify their jobs by catching the bad guys and getting the drugs off the streets. The more we pull off the streets the more demand on the growers and distributors and a better price and more profit from what does get through.
Drugs have been here as long as there have been records. Drugs and prostituion are here now and in my opinion will be here forever. So tax them by changing the system of taxation
Change our tax system from income tax to sales tax and everyone will be taxed and taxed fairly based on income. Prostitute does not declare income but they do spend their money so they get taxed. Drug dealer does not declare their income but they do spend their money so they pay their share. May be with all this extra income the States and the Fed could pay their bills and get us back on track