New Wind Turbine in Town

http://rockypoint360.com/plans-produce-wind-energy-puerto-penasco/ This article was written last year, its finally getting built......I saw the pad going in today.....

Here come a slew of dead birds.......

If you saw the diesel fired electrical plant in Puerto Libertad and the billowing black smoke from it you might feel as I do: the diesel pollution probably kills off and makes more organisms sick than a wind turbine does. In general it is pretty darn hard to mass produce enough electricity to meet the demand without there being offsetting environmental issues. I always wondered if there is a visual thing that could be done to scare the birds away from turbines.

Libertad as referenced above "We are all responsible for nature"

What is the location in Penasco of the turbine?

Libertad is switching to American Natural gas......much of it taken from our public lands at little benefit to American people.I still think it is a good thing.

The wind turbine has arrived in town, and they're starting to assemble the 100' turbine- anyone know where they're going?
http://www.numerounoonline.com/main/secciones/puerto-penasco/42-puerto-penasco/199262-arriba-a-penasco-el-aerogenerador-eolico-de-tono-astiazaran#.U-a-lZRdWt1

Miramar, it's going behind the gas station at the roundabout on the road into Sandy Beach. In other words where Samuel O caña ends at the roundabout..

Here's a few from Friday afternoon it is going in on the roundabout on the way to Sandy Beach Resorts!

lagrimas85 said:

Miramar, it's going behind the gas station at the roundabout on the road into Sandy Beach. In other words where Samuel O caña ends at the roundabout..

A great spot... Whenever we stay on Sandy Beach we stop there for beer and it's always randomly really windy right at that gas station. Never nearly as bad once we get to the resorts (or so it seems)

So what is one wind turbine going to power the circle k? I know it has to go on the grid but tt who's beifit

Don't be fooled. In mexico everything new that gets build is used for propaganda for local politicians. Mexicans never benefit, Mexicans pay one of the most expensive electrical bills in the world. Look how much money will be invested in putting up those wind turbines, Mexicans will have to be raped for 20 years by electrical bill just for the company to brake even.

Estella said:

Don't be fooled. In mexico everything new that gets build is used for propaganda for local politicians. Mexicans never benefit, Mexicans pay one of the most expensive electrical bills in the world. Look how much money will be invested in putting up those wind turbines, Mexicans will have to be raped for 20 years by electrical bill just for the company to brake even.

Ill informed post.

I have lived here for the better part of 9 years. I had been told of the high kw charge for electric use. I adjusted my usage to fit my budget. I just paid my last electric bill for 2 months for usage for May 14 through July 14th, the A/c was on, I live in a 2400 square foot 2 story house, my bill was "Cost of Production" $5808 pesos (464.00 12.5 to 1) The portion that the Federal government paid on my behalf was 4696 pesos (375.00 12.5 to 1) bringing my net electric bill to 1371 pesos (110.00 12.5 to1) for 2 months. It is because I am cautious on what I use in my house that the government gives the subsidy. If I am a pig and exceed the usage limits then I lose part or all of my subsidy. This type of regulation is not rape it is a reward for being aware of your usage which is a sustainable program. It makes you turn off unused appliances, lights, vanity items in and around the house which are unnecessary, etc!

Solar companies and wind generator companies both Mexican and foreign are entering the field of sustainable energy in Mexico. I am in the process of discovering the cost benefit of installing 2 kw solar array on my house and back feed into CFE so I have been reading a lot about energy in Mexico, it is truly interesting to me the difference in approach the federal gvt here has towards it. It looks like there are huge changes coming in the energy field here and it is being brought about with a degree of caution so that it will be self sustainable and profitable to the investors in the arena.

In the meantime I will continue to watch my personal energy consumption and reap the benefits of it. All of my neighbors are doing the same thing and it seems to work well. Diatribe over.

Russ,

We were like you, careful in our usage - but never uncomfortable. Had a 2 story place and our electric bill was usually less than what we had paid in the States. I did know of people that used a lot of electricity and their bills were terrible.

Think it is interesting that AZ considering utilizing Mexico's efforts, especially in the desalting plant. Would be a win win for both.

mexicoruss said:

Ill informed post.

I have lived here for the better part of 9 years. I had been told of the high kw charge for electric use. I adjusted my usage to fit my budget. I just paid my last electric bill for 2 months for usage for May 14 through July 14th, the A/c was on, I live in a 2400 square foot 2 story house, my bill was "Cost of Production" $5808 pesos (464.00 12.5 to 1) The portion that the Federal government paid on my behalf was 4696 pesos (375.00 12.5 to 1) bringing my net electric bill to 1371 pesos (110.00 12.5 to1) for 2 months. It is because I am cautious on what I use in my house that the government gives the subsidy. If I am a pig and exceed the usage limits then I lose part or all of my subsidy. This type of regulation is not rape it is a reward for being aware of your usage which is a sustainable program. It makes you turn off unused appliances, lights, vanity items in and around the house which are unnecessary, etc!

Solar companies and wind generator companies both Mexican and foreign are entering the field of sustainable energy in Mexico. I am in the process of discovering the cost benefit of installing 2 kw solar array on my house and back feed into CFE so I have been reading a lot about energy in Mexico, it is truly interesting to me the difference in approach the federal gvt here has towards it. It looks like there are huge changes coming in the energy field here and it is being brought about with a degree of caution so that it will be self sustainable and profitable to the investors in the arena.

In the meantime I will continue to watch my personal energy consumption and reap the benefits of it. All of my neighbors are doing the same thing and it seems to work well. Diatribe over.

Russ, Good to hear you guys can run the A/C at a house that size and still stay in the low KW usage/high subsidy zone. $110 for 2 months of electricity is unheard of in the AZ desert. Curious about the KW charge rate in RP. There was talk back in March about a rate increase. Are your charges based on the old rate or the new higher rate?

Don't think there was a rate hike discussed, rather an attempt by consumers to lower rates overall as Sonora apparently has a higher rate than many other states.

I have had the same experience with electric costs. If you are a hog, or in a rental pool, you're gonna pay. Reasonable management will result in modest costs. If your consumption goes into the third rate level you get wacked fast. Sneaky way to keep it down is to get multiple meters on your property.

We are not being completely forthright when it comes to disclosing why some have lower utility (CFE) bills. As an example, If you have a property in Sandy Beach, your rate will be much higher (regardless of how careful you are with your energy consumption). Russ, your 2400, 2 story home in Sandy Beach would be 2-3x higher with the same energy usage. Its called 'selective' pricing... some areas pay less and other areas pick up some of the tab. I'm ok with it... we just can't sell it as "its all good and CFE is awesome"

Roberto said:

Don't think there was a rate hike discussed, rather an attempt by consumers to lower rates overall as Sonora apparently has a higher rate than many other states.

Thanks for clarifying. A previous thread talked about an increase but they must have been mistaken. So were the consumers successful in convincing CFE to lower rates for the State of Sonora?

No Sharkey I don't think you were mistaken by that thread, from what I recall they were getting rid of the subsidy the gov pays for most residents on the electric bill, Kind of hard to believe you can cool a 2400 sq ft house for 50 bucks a month, maybe a very frugal couple can but not with the MIL and kids,

I've heard about the different rate structures for different areas before. Our place in Las Conchas is in CFE Zone 1E and we have received the subsidy. What zone is Sandy Beach in? What about other areas of town?

I am pretty sure that the whole Penasco area is on the zone 1E subsidy schedule. My place in Cholla is on it.
Someone with a Condo on Sandy Beach could verify this.

Russ, With a $110 bill for 2 months during the summer, you must keep the A/C running to a minimum.:eek: I would be miserable from the humidity.

My place in Cholla is 1300sf with dual pane windows with R-24 attic and foam roof insulation.
One- 2-ton mini split (10.6 seer) and we burn through 32-38 KW per day with the A/C running at 25-26 degrees Celsius for 8-12 hours a day in June.
(10-12 without A/C) ,
That's with 1 electric water heater, 1 med. size fridge, 2 small H2O pumps, a 32" led TV, 5 fans running and CFL bulb's in most every light we have.
No shade trees and non-insulated block walls but light colored painted walls.

The charge is approx. 7 cents per KW in zone 1E for up to 150-600KW per 2 month period, the price per KW and KW surcharge levels change
to different levels depending on what time of the years it is. Currently the basic charge level is 150KW for winter and 600 KW for summer months.
Check out the CFE site if you want some great reading, regarding that. ;)

Kea said:

I've heard about the different rate structures for different areas before. Our place in Las Conchas is in CFE Zone 1E and we have received the subsidy. What zone is Sandy Beach in? What about other areas of town?

My bill on Sandy Beach is 1E also. I just paid our bill for June and July. My condo was rented/occupied every day for the entire 2 months. The bill for the two months was $4,480 pesos or at a 12.5 peso exchange rate $378.20 which comes out to $193.60 per month. Condo is 1,530 square feet. Condo is all electric - no gas appliances.

mis2810, how many KW were consumed during that period?

mis2810 said:

My condo was rented/occupied every day for the entire 2 months.

WOW!!! Are you doing a lot of marketing, or were you just down there most of the time?

I was down the last 2 weeks in June, 3 days in July were for me, and 2 days for a family friend. Other than that, pure rental $$$. I've got a good unit, with a good view, and nice furniture. Rented the first 2 weeks of August also.

I bet the electric meters are burning up this time of the year, I just looked at Casa Weez it's 90 with a 81 degree dew point, :eek: No me gusta lo!!

OK, no I am not saying that CFE is wonderful and everything is rosy. I simply responded to someone saying that we get raped by the gvt.

The cost of production is greater here than other places. The subsidy is a reward for less consumption. I keep my house between 28-30 most of the time, the A/cs are off when we are gone they have timers so they come on 30 minutes before we get home. It is not cold in my office in my house but my wife works upstairs in the sewing room and it is pretty nice all the time up there.
The way I understand it, if you exceed the "piggy zone" of 4000 kw in the period you will lose your subsidy for 12 months.....so if you are in the rental pool you don't have subsidy......I am not in the rental pool. My juice usage in my example was 1589 kw (.06 kw hr) for 2 months. I am frugal, sometimes I am a little hot but it is a small price to pay.....for a small price to pay.

Just looked at residential statements for same time period for Mirador, Unconscious, Intown and Sandy Beach. All show a Tarif (rate) 1E so all the town seems to be the same rate for residences. The step up rate structure (Facturation) plus the discounts for verano (Summer) and the Aportacion (Gov. pays this part) causes confusion. The basic rate and steps was the same on all the statements for the same time period I looked at. Commercial comes in a a higher rate by quite a bit. Facturation levels of rate increase start out higher and go higher for commercial plus there is no subsidy for commercial.

In Summary:
All areas are 1E residential Tarifa/Rate
All areas have the same residential ,Facturation/step increases
All areas residential have get the sumer rate reduction.
I did not calculate the Aportacion Gubermamental (Governent discount) but it looks the same.
Commercial is way more across the board.

So I think this means that in reality Russ, having two businesses at his home, should be paying the Commercial rate. :eek::eek:
Have a vague memory about more than one meter at his place too which is a way to keep the costs down by keeping the rate down as the rate is calculated per meter ????

mis2810 said:

Rented the first 2 weeks of August also.

Uh-oh. Those damned Boomerfest Hippies will get stoned and drunk and destroy the place and it will ALWAYS smell like mota after they leave! :eek:

Stuart said:

Uh-oh. Those damned Boomerfest Hippies will get stoned and drunk and destroy the place and it will ALWAYS smell like mota after they leave! :eek:

Hey, I know those guys...

I recognize Kenny and Jack but who is the third guy??

Roberto said:

I recognize Kenny and Jack but who is the third guy??

Young Jerry. It's an old pic! <smirk>

mexicoruss said:

OK, no I am not saying that CFE is wonderful and everything is rosy. I simply responded to someone saying that we get raped by the gvt.

The cost of production is greater here than other places. The subsidy is a reward for less consumption. I keep my house between 28-30 most of the time, the A/cs are off when we are gone they have timers so they come on 30 minutes before we get home. It is not cold in my office in my house but my wife works upstairs in the sewing room and it is pretty nice all the time up there.
The way I understand it, if you exceed the "piggy zone" of 4000 kw in the period you will lose your subsidy for 12 months.....so if you are in the rental pool you don't have subsidy......I am not in the rental pool. My juice usage in my example was 1589 kw (.06 kw hr) for 2 months. I am frugal, sometimes I am a little hot but it is a small price to pay.....for a small price to pay.

Russ, Yep keeping it 82.5-86 degrees at your house and using timers will definitely reduce your KW consumption.
But that would only increase my sweat production and my cerveza consumption.

I know summers are pretty tough in RP, especially in Cholla before we finally electricity got there,
Ahh, the sound of a generator humming to keep the fans and fridge going, lulling us to sleep, and waking up soaked because,
one of my bone headed friends forgot to put more gas in the generator.

We were tougher back then, now! not so much.:D

You have to remain on average under 4000kWh for the year (6 billing cycles). Some of us in the summer exceed 4000kWh for a 2 month period.
For example my usage for condo:
May-July 5248 kWh
Mar-May 1807 kWh
Jan-Mar 1036 kWh

If your avg. exceeds 4000kWh per billing cycle (I always have 2 billing cycles that go above 4000k, the next one is Aug-Sep), then you will be in a tarifa above '1E'... and from the owners I know that went into this tariffa, the rate is ridiculous. I also believe you have to wait an entire year before you can have your meter avg. reset (need the prior year's 6 billing cycles).

Roberto said:

Just looked at residential statements for same time period for Mirador, Unconscious, Intown and Sandy Beach. All show a Tarif (rate) 1E so all the town seems to be the same rate for residences. The step up rate structure (Facturation) plus the discounts for verano (Summer) and the Aportacion (Gov. pays this part) causes confusion. The basic rate and steps was the same on all the statements for the same time period I looked at. Commercial comes in a a higher rate by quite a bit. Facturation levels of rate increase start out higher and go higher for commercial plus there is no subsidy for commercial.

In Summary:
All areas are 1E residential Tarifa/Rate
All areas have the same residential ,Facturation/step increases
All areas residential have get the sumer rate reduction.
I did not calculate the Aportacion Gubermamental (Governent discount) but it looks the same.
Commercial is way more across the board.

So I think this means that in reality Russ, having two businesses at his home, should be paying the Commercial rate. :eek::eek:
Have a vague memory about more than one meter at his place too which is a way to keep the costs down by keeping the rate down as the rate is calculated per meter ????

Nope, we have the property across the street full pay no subsidies, it is a workshop on a property that has 3 residences on it (thus 3 meters) . The workshop pays full rate for it's use, but the others are rated as domestico. I checked with CFE on this last month and we had a meeting and all 4 properties are correct. Our house is our main office but not designated by CFE as such as the main portion is living space so it is listed as domestico. It is legal to operate your office business out of your house in Mexico as long as it doesn't manufacture things.

A quick youtube video about this project and in some of the frames you can see competition hill in the background

Is this planned to be just one turbine, or the first of more to come?

But what about all the endangered Penasco Skeeter birds this monstrosity will kill? It must be stopped at all costs!!!

(Well, at least that's the argument the greens use against turbine power here in the U.S. Birds fly into those big propellers and get dead.)

I am worried about the ultralights....lol
I think this is a standalone experimental project which will produce enough power for a village in Central Sonora, I have to find out for sure of course.

There will be more but probably not in this exact location

This is the Spanish company that builds the units Gamesa

mexicoruss said:

Here is a cool 2:18 video of the wind turbine being built!

Wind Turbine Sonora!

That is the quickest project completion I've ever seen done in RP, Pad poured around July 1st, Aug 25th it's all assembled. Very impressive.
Boy that is a big turbine in pictures can't wait to see how big it is in person. It looks bigger than the ones outside of Palm Springs on I-10 going to LA.
The Cruise Port obviously isn't being built like that.

mexicoruss said:

Here is a cool 2:18 video of the wind turbine being built!

Wind Turbine Sonora!

Very cool! Thanks for sharing.

This will be the first wind turbine I have ever driven "under" while it is operating. It is very close to the road and it is a spectacle from all sides of town. I looked out my window this morning from almost a mile away and I can see this massive 350 foot tall structure. It is a great achievement in mans ability to construct!

Drove past there last weekend while the blades were still on the ground - incredible massive.

Can't wait to see it a week from today. Mostly can't wait to get back to RP.

Truly amazing construction.

GV Jack said:

Can't wait to see it a week from today. Mostly can't wait to get back to RP.

Truly amazing construction.

the police are watchine

So is the power going back into the grid? And who owns it?

It was quite a sight from our vantage point at Del Capitan on Sunday.

It is fed back into the grid and is privately owned and supported by Energia Sonora
Antonio Toño Astiazaran is the promoter and director from what I gathered

mexicoruss said:

It is fed back into the grid and is privately owned and supported by Energia Sonora
Antonio Toño Astiazaran is the promoter and director from what I gathered

He is a politician (Astiazaran) and owns the lot where the turbine sits..

They almost lost it while lifting the blade...good save by the american in the Polaris!

jerry said:

They almost lost it while lifting the blade...good save by the american in the Polaris!

such a troll

mexicoruss said:

such a troll

what is your problem vanman? did you see the video...the guy saved the day after the dumbasses tried to raise the blade in the windstorm...he is a hero!

^

I'm not that old yet.......

mexicoruss said:

This will be the first wind turbine I have ever driven "under" while it is operating. It is very close to the road and it is a spectacle from all sides of town. I looked out my window this morning from almost a mile away and I can see this massive 350 foot tall structure. It is a great achievement in mans ability to construct!

No, this is a grand achievement in mans ability to construct, that's just a big Erector set.

Can you imagine what the Mayan's could have constructed if they had a crane!! What site is this from Kenny? Been to Tulum in the Yucatan & Tikal in Guatemala. Unbelievable accomplishments! Sorry about the hijack!

dry heat said:

^

Bet on black!

jerry said:

Bet on black!

But good guy's wear white!

Landshark said:

Can you imagine what the Mayan's could have constructed if they had a crane!! What site is this from Kenny? Been to Tulum in the Yucatan & Tikal in Guatemala. Unbelievable accomplishments! Sorry about the hijack!

Is that the pyramid is in Chichen itza El Castillo?

Anyone have a clue how much a wind turbine cost? Hijack!

If a bird flies in to that gigfantic blade they must be dumb or blind. Plus they do not turn all that fast.

Alacrane said:

Anyone have a clue how much a wind turbine cost? Hijack!

It was reported this one was $50 million pesos. How many would you like? We have good prices today my friend!

http://www.chichenitza.com

MIRAMAR said:

Is that the pyramid is in Chichen itza El Castillo?

Definitely not Chichen Itza,

http://www.chichenitza.com

It has been several years since I have been there but San Juanico on the pacific coast of Baja was off the grid when I was there and had a fairly large wind farm in addition to solar panels everywhere:

http://www.allaboutbaja.com/sanjuanico.htm

Yep, Palenque.

It's really big in person.

brokenwave said:

It's really big in person.

It's the tallest structure in Sonora

Technical specifications for the wind turbine. Interesting spec not shown is the speed of the tip of the blade. It is in the 190 mph range at max rotor rpm of 17.8 rpm's! Pelicans beware!!!
Gamesa G97-2.0 MW IIIA
Properties of the model
ROTOR
Diameter 97 m
Swept area 7,390 m²
Rotational speed 9.6 - 17.8 rpm
BLADES
Number of blades 3
Length 47.5 m
Airfoils Gamesa
Material Pre-impregnated epoxy glass fiber + carbon fiber
TOWER
Type Modular
Height 78, 90 m (120 m tower height under development)
GEAR BOX
Type
1 planetary stage
2 parallel stages
Ratio
1:106,8 (50Hz)
1:127,1 (60Hz)
GENERATOR 2.0 MW
Type Doubly-fed machine
Rated power 2.0 MW
Voltage 690 V AC
Frequency 50 Hz / 60Hz
Potection class IP 54
Power factor 0.95 CAP - 0.95 IND throughout the power range

Gamesa: Mexico's market leader

In Mexico, Gamesa has signed a new contract for the supply of 100 MW of its turbines to a big utility. With this agreement, the company demonstrates its leadership in the country, where it is the largest wind turbine manufacturer, having garnered a market share of over 73%, according to the most recent wind report by BTM Consult.

Under the terms of the contract -signed in 2Q 2014-, Gamesa will supply and install 50 G97-2.0 MW turbines at a wind farm located in central Mexico. The wind turbines are scheduled for delivery during the first quarter of 2015 and the wind farm is expected to be commissioned during the last.

Gamesa has a significant presence in Latin America and particularly in Mexico, where the company has installed 1,067 MW and services 873 MW. In that market, Gamesa also is engaged in the development and sale of wind farms. As a wind power developer, Gamesa has developed, built and commissioned close to 250 MW in Mexico and it is building another 70 MW.

Out of all the open space they could put that eyesore they picked that spot? Why do they just not put it on the Malecon? All be it they are uglier than hell, the region is about as windy as a place can get or at least when I want to fish. They could put in quite the farm and if and when and if they do I just hope it is a little more North as they are just unsightly.

They did the same thing on Lake Erie in Buffalo. The turbines are in the water - as if the power generated by Niagara isn't enough they had to ruin the view with those things.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201490810552678&set=a.1056056342167.8013.1848626280&type=1&theater

I am ok with the wind-turbine, except for one thing... its location.

dry heat said:

I am ok with the wind-turbine, except for one thing... its location.

Better get a master HOA out there before they start putting weird stuff out of place...

Well hell let them put it out on the end of the jetty and put lights on it so boats don't run into the rocks. Another great focal point I know Jerry will agree.

This thing is like the fish on Calle 13. An expensive and wasteful way to try to illustrate that Penasco looks like all is well.

For the past 2 weekends we've been down, it hasn't been working. Anyone know what's wrong with it?

I don't think it was ever turned on. They put it up fast, then nothing.

I heard they installed the propellers backwards....:p:D

Gonna have to ask Rockypointbeachbum to check her sources and get back to us, or the six blind mice...

Is the windmill working yet?

Not that I see.

Been here since the 2nd. It turns a little bit every now and then. But not fast enough to do anything.

It has not been installed on the grid so it is locked down and will be running soon.

It sounds like it's working now: http://www.numerounoonline.com/main/secciones/puerto-penasco/42-puerto-penasco/200301-ponen-en-marcha-aerogenerador-de-energia-electrica-en-penasco#.VLNHdNLF_9k

MIRAMAR said:

It sounds like it's working now: http://www.numerounoonline.com/main/secciones/puerto-penasco/42-puerto-penasco/200301-ponen-en-marcha-aerogenerador-de-energia-electrica-en-penasco#.VLNHdNLF_9k

I saw it spinning slowly the other day

The generator has a limiter on how fast the blades spin, if you get under it when it is spinning you understand all the gearing in that thing as you can hear it buzzing, it is working and making juice. If the wind blows really hard or from many different directions at a time the unit will shut down and quit spinning as a protection.

It is sort of a good news bad news situation....it was put here because Rocky Point is windy as shit but on the positive side wind power is awesome.

mexicoruss said:

The generator has a limiter on how fast the blades spin, if you get under it when it is spinning you understand all the gearing in that thing as you can hear it buzzing, it is working and making juice. If the wind blows really hard or from many different directions at a time the unit will shut down and quit spinning as a protection.

Indeed, good to know, because excess wind can be fatal, so to speak:oops:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-30667411

It is a shame that it was allowed near the city. They tend to multiply and become visual pollution to the area. We have miles of them near me and they really junk up the landscape. Many also have sued over the health issues they cause.

Not all progress is good progress.

I thought it was an.. interesting place to put it. Right next to a gas station. But since the bay is spoken for where else can they put it and the many others that will be needed to really make a difference?

At least it will be a point of interest for the 8 hour lay overs for the tourists on the ships. And a nice distraction from the North East portion of PP, you know the vast expanse of burnt car grave yards, water reclamation ponds with green oxygen depleted floral bloomed waters and 1 room shacks held together with any flat piece of material blowing down the road that house 10 people.

http://www.aweo.org/problemwithwind.html

It is an environmentally friendly option that will up heave the entire population right? Should lower utilities and reduce dependance on fossil fuels to right?

Re-bar and concrete issues with standing they should be very safe as well, as long as construction isn't handled by the lowest bidder.

They (there will have to be more than one) will look beautiful against the lush green hills with clouds slowly blowing through the area.

And since there are no migratory birds, cattle, sheep or horses to compete with then there will be no impact on the fauna.

There should be nothing to complain about, this will work out just fine. I can feel it en mis huesos.

Hehe, I hope it helps the people down there in the end. I really do. But it will make it look a whole lot different when there are 30+ of them, IMO... enjoy it now. To late to turn back now.

PPRES

It's strange, isn't it. For a couple decades now certain insular levels of western society have been moaning and spouting venom about the use of fossil fuels to create electricity. Now that the technical people have developed a renewable source in the form of windmill power, it's bad news all over again. Has the Al Gore/Obama Society virus spread to Penasco and started to infect brains here?

What the hell do you know about infected brains? 2 decades ago you were a snot nose Freshman in a Colorado high school just spouting off what ever your parents spewed to you.

Do you know anything about the time period that you speak of? NAFTA (effective since 1994)ring a bell? Whether you think it worked out or not it helped set a lot of things in motion that probably helped put smart asses like you in the position to live down there.


"In 1990, Mexico approached the United States with the idea of forming a free trade agreement
(FTA). Mexico’s main motivation in pursuing an FTA with the United States was to stabilize the
Mexican economy and promote economic development by attracting foreign direct investment,
increasing exports, and creating jobs. The Mexican economy had experienced many difficulties
throughout most of the 1980s with a significant deepening of poverty. The expectation among
supporters at the time was that NAFTA would improve investor confidence in Mexico, increase
export diversification, create higher-skilled jobs, increase wage rates, and reduce poverty. It was
expected that, over time, NAFTA would narrow the income differentials between Mexico and the
United States and Canada."

http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/145102.pdf

You should just post your adds in the Real Estate section, at least your motives at this forum would be UN-questionable and I could at least respect that.