I went to Phx and stayed with a friend. We went to a big party last night. The subject of RP came up and did I hear a lot of angry people. One women told me her brother lost almost 1 million at Riveria Real, another guy had to move his trailer out of mirador so they could build a condo they never built. Someone knew someone at Diamond Village. It seems that everyone knew someone that had lost money on condos never finished or something. So many of them said they used to go down but would never return because they knew so many others that had their money taken with no hope of getting it back. I was asked about all the project in Las Conchos that were never finished. I own one of those. I was very surprised by their hostile comments. I lost 3 investments down there but still go and do not feel anger at those who have finished projects.. My friend live in rather a well to do area. Has any one else every run into anything like this?
Unhappy people in Phoenix
Started by marybna · Feb 22, 2013 · 26 replies
marybna said:I went to Phx and stayed with a friend. We went to a big party last night. The subject of RP came up and did I hear a lot of angry people. One women told me her brother lost almost 1 million at Riveria Real, another guy had to move his trailer out of mirador so they could build a condo they never built. Someone knew someone at Diamond Village. It seems that everyone knew someone that had lost money on condos never finished or something. So many of them said they used to go down but would never return because they knew so many others that had their money taken with no hope of getting it back. I was asked about all the project in Las Conchos that were never finished. I own one of those. I was very surprised by their hostile comments. I lost 3 investments down there but still go and do not feel anger at those who have finished projects.. My friend live in rather a well to do area. Has any one else every run into anything like this?
I've noticed that in general there's more frustration and anger in Phoenix than other places. People in Tucson don't seem nearly as uptight.
My sister and bro-in-law lost money in La Perla in the Mirador (Patrick Clifton) and still turned around and bought (twice) in Las Palomas. They come down every chance they get.
It isn't as though no one ever got ripped off in the US. Remember when everyone lost their savings in Arizona? Bernie Madoff? It gives people comfort to think they're being protected, but the reality is that they are as vulnerable there as they are here. I happen to believe there's legal recourse (just ask lagrimas), but people who've been burned don't want to spend even more money on trying to get recompense. When the subject comes up locally, I've heard Mexicans point out that many of those who lost money here were scammed by people from their own country. By the way...it took me 6 years, but I finally won my lawsuit! yay!!!
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. way to go Rosy! The group of spec house building dentists and doctors from Cali that have my 27 grand for precast concrete objects are on my payback list. if Mexico had fee simple title the place would be booming.Case in point Maimi.PitiquitoRosy said:I've noticed that in general there's more frustration and anger in Phoenix than other places. People in Tucson don't seem nearly as uptight.
My sister and bro-in-law lost money in La Perla in the Mirador (Patrick Clifton) and still turned around and bought (twice) in Las Palomas. They come down every chance they get.
It isn't as though no one ever got ripped off in the US. Remember when everyone lost their savings in Arizona? Bernie Madoff? It gives people comfort to think they're being protected, but the reality is that they are as vulnerable there as they are here. I happen to believe there's legal recourse (just ask lagrimas), but people who've been burned don't want to spend even more money on trying to get recompense. When the subject comes up locally, I've heard Mexicans point out that many of those who lost money here were scammed by people from their own country. By the way...it took me 6 years, but I finally won my lawsuit! yay!!!
In Miami, A New Condo Boom Revives Hopes Of Housing Recovery : NPR
I had to take my trailer out of Playa Miramar trailer park for condo's that never happened. That was May of 2007. I still can't drive by that empty lot without heartburn....I'm in PDO now but on the north side. Can't see dolphins anymore from the sundeck. The only good thing that came out of that weekend was my little Mexi-cat that adopted me while I sitting on my patio floor, crying and drinking....The story is on here if you want to read it.....And my little Mexi-cat who now weighs 14 pounds is snoring on my bed! LOL!
Back in early 2000 there was an “American” that developed a subdivision out by Playa Encanto. We bought a lot there and held onto it for a while. We then were told about another project that was beach front Villa’s by the same developer. We decided to put the lot up for sale and put some money down on the Villa. It took about 4 years to sale the lot at the same price we paid for it. The Villa’s were moving along well and then we ran into a beach front house in Playa Encanto we could not pass up. So, we put the Villa up for sale. That’s when it started. We sold the villa pretty fast and we had difficulty getting back our principle and profit we were to make. After a real ordeal we were somewhat close to getting our principle back all communication stopped. After doing more home work I found out that there was a Mexican company involved it the project(s). After I contacted him, I must say, he paid me on the money I was due up to the principle. It took time, but I still feel this Mexican man would have paid me the profit too. But sadly, he had passed away I found out.
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Last edited: Feb 22, 2013 at 6:00 PM
There are a lot of us that have left money on the table in Mexico. There many with the place in Mirador that said they lost their deck and shed with no compensation and now there is nothing there. I pass Diamond Village every time I go to Sandy Beach and I also know people that bought there. But what happens? Will someone come in a buy this unfinished projects and finish them? What will happen to the money we gave the original developer? I know people that put a lot of money into the Harbor Condo. What will happen with that?
As people say, you can lose money anywhere. A major developer in AZ and Hawaii managed to scam a lot of people out of big bucks - and the way he did it was all perfectly legal.
marybna said:There are a lot of us that have left money on the table in Mexico. There many with the place in Mirador that said they lost their deck and shed with no compensation and now there is nothing there. I pass Diamond Village every time I go to Sandy Beach and I also know people that bought there. But what happens? Will someone come in a buy this unfinished projects and finish them? What will happen to the money we gave the original developer? I know people that put a lot of money into the Harbor Condo. What will happen with that?
In answer to your question about what might happen. The point is moot right now because of the economy, but if and when those properties (remember, there's a limited amount of beachfront) begin to attract investors with money, previous developers will be looking to negotiate with those of you who make noise. Those who give up and quietly go...well, I'm not so sure.
El Gato said:As people say, you can lose money anywhere. A major developer in AZ and Hawaii managed to scam a lot of people out of big bucks - and the way he did it was all perfectly legal.
So what?... It's like talking about how many homicides there are in Tucson compared to PP. It doesn't mean a damn thing to the person shot!
Last edited: Feb 23, 2013 at 9:40 AM
Lien's in first position have taken over some properties, so you can make all the noise you want, no one will here ya.
In Miami today you cannot get a loan for a condo but the builders are demanding half down and floating the rest.The Venezualians and Russians are flocking there.Mexico is crazy note giving titles on the coast.
They used my $160,000 to finish other people's houses. I did talk to an attorney in Hermisillo that had done similar work in other Mexican Resorts. He told me that people that bought in Phase 3 at LP are looking into something similar because their money was used to finish phase 2. He as talking about putting liens on property that was finished with other's money before it was sold to the next buyer. If I was 20 yrs younger I might pursue it
Buyer's that are upset only have 1 person to blame. Themselves. The more I looked at properties both built and "to be built", the more I told myself only to make a purchase where the key was handed to me as I signed the papers. Period.
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Unfortunately even Sonoran Spa wanted a large down before the condo was finished and that worked out just fine and so did Bella Sirena. It was the later projects that had problem. Many of the project on Sandy beach were completed without these problems.
well that may work with the big boys but an artisan builder needs draws as work preceedsmondone said:Buyer's that are upset only have 1 person to blame. Themselves. The more I looked at properties both built and "to be built", the more I told myself only to make a purchase where the key was handed to me as I signed the papers. Period.
marybna said:Unfortunately even Sonoran Spa wanted a large down before the condo was finished and that worked out just fine and so did Bella Sirena. It was the later projects that had problem. Many of the project on Sandy beach were completed without these problems.
Mary, I feel bad for what you've been through. It's obvious that you love Penasco and not only care about what happens to your personal investments, but to the town as well. My dream is to own a condo on Sandy Beach and live there until I die on my balcony and they take me out feet first. I'm killing myself trying to get my $28,000 down payment to the owner within the next few months or I lose my chance at my dream. I'm not asking you or anyone else to feel sorry for me, I'm a hard worker and I'll do my best to make it happen. You've owned three condos on Sandy Beach, and from what I can tell by the info you've posted, you've invested in at least two other developments. I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that if you've got the money to gamble on something that's not built yet, then that's how you have to look at it - as a gamble. In the end, you still have your condo at Bella Sirena and one day you may still get your other two properties. Be thankful for that and think of me every now and then when you start feeling bad about the situation.
While I'm at it, if anyone knows anybody who needs some freelance paralegal work, I'm your gal. Corporate, immigration, research, writing,etc. 20 years of experience, Advanced Certification, bilingual.
Last edited: Feb 23, 2013 at 6:10 PM
I used to have the money but like everyone else that was in RE sometimes it doesn't work out. I have a 1 bedroom at Bella and that is all. I would not be afraid to buy at any of the Sonoran properties or any of the older developments. Also there are some place in Mirador that look solvent. Also Cholla Bay looks good. I alsoown t Laguna Shores, just a lot but they have some 1 bedrooms that are not real expense. They seem to be solvent.
mondone said:Buyer's that are upset only have 1 person to blame. Themselves. The more I looked at properties both built and "to be built", the more I told myself only to make a purchase where the key was handed to me as I signed the papers. Period.
This is a somewhat limited view on a transaction. Having successfully built in Mexico I am well aware of the value of seeing what you are purchasing and moving right in. One can also run into dishonest and deceitful people that may be selling you something that they have no right to sell. I have always felt that one of the most important things Mexico can do for its people, the economy and to attract more foreign investment is to establish fair and standard property laws and a streamlined transaction method. Above all, enforce the rule of law.
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The investors in Liberty Cove are being setup at this moment because extraction industry front men need the property for other uses.There is a con man behind every palm tree down here.Rent,hang out,get drunk the locals,share some meals....then invest or run
mis2810 said:
While I'm at it, if anyone knows anybody who needs some freelance paralegal work, I'm your gal. Corporate, immigration, research, writing,etc. 20 years of experience, Advanced Certification, bilingual.
While I have no question about your legal skills whatsoever, I think your back road driving skills need improvement!!
Roberto said:While I have no question about your legal skills whatsoever, I think your back road driving skills need improvement!!
I never offered my services as a tour guide, but you'll be happy to know I'm a quick student! Thanks for the lesson! I still owe you a bottle of wine!
dirtsurfer said:This is a somewhat limited view on a transaction. Having successfully built in Mexico I am well aware of the value of seeing what you are purchasing and moving right in. One can also run into dishonest and deceitful people that may be selling you something that they have no right to sell. I have always felt that one of the most important things Mexico can do for its people, the economy and to attract more foreign investment is to establish fair and standard property laws and a streamlined transaction method. Above all, enforce the rule of law.
All part of my point. You have to do your due diligence and make sure everything is on the up and up. I decided I wasn't going to gamble my money on promises the more I looked at it and boy am I glad I ever did. Not long after, all the building stopped cold. Whew, dodged that bullet.
The biggest problem for developers, anywhere is the amount of "equity" they have to have before a bank will loan construction money to them. Usually the land, even if paid off does not fit the requirement. In the US, back in the good days a developer would have to have usually 30% of the construction cost in land value and/or $$$. ( Interesting fact: The land value is only worth what you paid for it or the current value WHICHEVER is LESS!!!) In Mexico it was 50% if you could find someone to loan it to you. Not uncommon for developers to use your downpayment to fund the construction of the next phase in order to get the needed equity position. The way to protect yourself in the US is to make sure the Developer has "Completion Insurance". So it is kinda of like borrowing from Peter to pay Paul and it used to work as long as the economy was growing. As soon as it stops growing the banks stop lending and Peter loses out. Sometimes like in North Beach, legal issues pop up that creates another set of issues. The perfect storm, no more Peters, no lenders and legal issues. IMHO. Gary
garyd said:The biggest problem for developers, anywhere is the amount of "equity" they have to have before a bank will loan construction money to them. Usually the land, even if paid off does not fit the requirement. In the US, back in the good days a developer would have to have usually 30% of the construction cost in land value and/or $$$. ( Interesting fact: The land value is only worth what you paid for it or the current value WHICHEVER is LESS!!!) In Mexico it was 50% if you could find someone to loan it to you. Not uncommon for developers to use your downpayment to fund the construction of the next phase in order to get the needed equity position. The way to protect yourself in the US is to make sure the Developer has "Completion Insurance". So it is kinda of like borrowing from Peter to pay Paul and it used to work as long as the economy was growing. As soon as it stops growing the banks stop lending and Peter loses out. Sometimes like in North Beach, legal issues pop up that creates another set of issues. The perfect storm, no more Peters, no lenders and legal issues. IMHO. Gary
Big is bad.If you If you can't fit all the principals in the trunk of your car fx or a ride to the oyster farm you have no shot if things go south.
marybna said:I used to have the money but like everyone else that was in RE sometimes it doesn't work out. I have a 1 bedroom at Bella and that is all. I would not be afraid to buy at any of the Sonoran properties or any of the older developments. Also there are some place in Mirador that look solvent. Also Cholla Bay looks good. I alsoown t Laguna Shores, just a lot but they have some 1 bedrooms that are not real expense. They seem to be solvent.
LAGUNA SHORES RESORT , MICHAEL ROBERT KLINE is the owner. He went to Prison in New York for mail fraud .CONDOS doesnt have TITLES if you buy a fractional make sure that have TITLE first, because they used to make fraud selling condos with NOT TITLE.. DONT BUY ANYTHING FROM LAGUNA.He divorced because he was in JAIL for FRAUD. the divorce documents showing that Michael Kline has been ordered to pay child support all these years and has NOT. Yet it appears that he likes to show how generous Laguna shores is to people in Rocky Point at Christmas.......He likes to look good in front of people yet he doesn't take care of his own children..he was in jail in LOS CABOS SAN LUCAS for destroying enviromental desert reserve to build ROLLING HILLS states resort find him in the web. on pictures shows how faces are changed so that people do not recognize him. He was friends with the famous Jeffrey MacDonald: Jeffrey R. MacDonald 00131-177 Served time at FCI Sheridan from July 1991 to May 2003. Currently serving time at FCI Cumberland. U.S. Army medical officer and a member of the Special Forces Green Berets who was convicted in 1979 of killing his wife and two children. same time when michael was in prision. SEE the pics. What about wife fraud, He committed fraud to his WIFE selling a Scottsdale property for $500,000.00 DLLS. Do you trust in laguna shores? see this picssss..... I have never received a penny from Michael for the girls or myself. Any man that denies his own children is not an honorable man.
Michael is not the big shot he thinks he is.....He is not powerful or wealthy. He only tries to look like he is. He has proven that he has a very mean and vindictive side. I was very happy when the judge here in Arizona stated that Michael is not an honest man! The authorities here know what he is like and that is helpful
He wants to be liked in Mexico as he cannot live in the United States. He is fearful of any Mexican officially complaining about him.
He even tried to leave us homeless and without a car etc....Monster Michael indeed.
monster michael. please keep passing the information
laguna shores resort de puerto peñasco es un fraude , cuidado con comprar una membresia porque el dueño de laguna shores michael kline estuvo en la carcel de nueva york por fraude, tambien le hizo fraude a su esposa en arizona y aparte no paga manutencion de sus hijos en arizona , tambien estuvo en la carcel en los cabos san lucas por destruir parte de la reserva ecologica para construir otro hotel ROLLIN HILLS , buscalo en internet con su nombre MICHAEL ROBERT KLINE. y mira las fotos si usted no cree . pasala a otras personas para que no les cometan fraude...Los condominios NO tienen TITULOS de PROPIEDAD que te los muestren todos....
jesus millan said:LAGUNA SHORES RESORT , MICHAEL ROBERT KLINE is the owner. He went to Prison in New York for mail fraud .CONDOS doesnt have TITLES if you buy a fractional make sure that have TITLE first, because they used to make fraud selling condos with NOT TITLE.. DONT BUY ANYTHING FROM LAGUNA.He divorced because he was in JAIL for FRAUD. the divorce documents showing that Michael Kline has been ordered to pay child support all these years and has NOT. Yet it appears that he likes to show how generous Laguna shores is to people in Rocky Point at Christmas.......He likes to look good in front of people yet he doesn't take care of his own children..he was in jail in LOS CABOS SAN LUCAS for destroying enviromental desert reserve to build ROLLING HILLS states resort find him in the web. on pictures shows how faces are changed so that people do not recognize him. He was friends with the famous Jeffrey MacDonald: Jeffrey R. MacDonald 00131-177 Served time at FCI Sheridan from July 1991 to May 2003. Currently serving time at FCI Cumberland. U.S. Army medical officer and a member of the Special Forces Green Berets who was convicted in 1979 of killing his wife and two children. same time when michael was in prision. SEE the pics. What about wife fraud, He committed fraud to his WIFE selling a Scottsdale property for $500,000.00 DLLS. Do you trust in laguna shores? see this picssss..... I have never received a penny from Michael for the girls or myself. Any man that denies his own children is not an honorable man.
Michael is not the big shot he thinks he is.....He is not powerful or wealthy. He only tries to look like he is. He has proven that he has a very mean and vindictive side. I was very happy when the judge here in Arizona stated that Michael is not an honest man! The authorities here know what he is like and that is helpful
He wants to be liked in Mexico as he cannot live in the United States. He is fearful of any Mexican officially complaining about him.
He even tried to leave us homeless and without a car etc....Monster Michael indeed.
monster michael. please keep passing the information
laguna shores resort de puerto peñasco es un fraude , cuidado con comprar una membresia porque el dueño de laguna shores michael kline estuvo en la carcel de nueva york por fraude, tambien le hizo fraude a su esposa en arizona y aparte no paga manutencion de sus hijos en arizona , tambien estuvo en la carcel en los cabos san lucas por destruir parte de la reserva ecologica para construir otro hotel ROLLIN HILLS , buscalo en internet con su nombre MICHAEL ROBERT KLINE. y mira las fotos si usted no cree . pasala a otras personas para que no les cometan fraude...Los condominios NO tienen TITULOS de PROPIEDAD que te los muestren todos....
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