Seven months into my existence as an expat in Mexico, I've managed to remain immune to the catastrophic epidemic of Manana-itis. This condition has been linked to tardiness and empty-wallet syndrome.
I've relaxed and am going through a phase of my own that has left me with a serious discontent for shoes. I've refused to put them on since June. A creature of habit from my days of hitting panty-droppers as they crossed the blueline , I know a good streak when I see it and for dang sure don't want to break it.
But I work. Everyday. The stories get knocked out on-time and the telephone remains glued to my ear for the first part of my day.
I look around this town and notice a lot of manana projects. You know what I'm talking about. We will get to that manana. Let's talk manana. I'll get back to you manana. It's like saving a project for a rainy day than when the rain comes saying that it is too wet to do it.
I have always been a "half-full" kind of person. I look at Rocky Point and see a tremendous amount of potential. I love the people, culture, and community while sharing that fondness with my world. Manana or never, it does not really matter. I've learned a long time ago to give everyone the initial opportunity to show their hand. Than it's much easier to separate the contenders from pretenders.
In my line of work, relationships are everything. Burning bridges (or sources) is a fast way to the poor house and I'm very careful to be a man of my word. I pass those lessons onto my children and to thousands of readers everyday. Manana-itis is a great way to burn bridges when taking part in any type of relationship, business or personal. I ran into an acquaintance at the Super Ley the other day that wanted to do business with us a few months ago. Needless to say, he has a serious case of manana-itis and our deal went on without him.
Friends, family and business contacts will have a lot more respect when you do as you say you are going to do. Not living up to your word simply destroys credibility earned to that point in a relationship.
Is there a cure for manana-itis? Certainly. Be honest with yourself and those around you. If you don't want to do something, simply have the courage to express it.
Stephan, I must say I enjoy your work and your writing. You have brought a refreshing atmosphere to the forum.
Now, I sadly admit I have not been a long-timer visiting Mexico. I have come here off and on for about five years.
I have learned, because of this forum to really appreciate the place and more so the people. I find them to be friendly,
helpful and willing to smile at the drop of a smile toward them. I am pleased to say, I don't do business here, nor do I
want to.
Part of the charm of Mexicon is their culture. Part of their culture is mananaitis. I, in a million years wouldn't want to
change that. It's the way these dear people live and they appear to me to be quite well adjusted to it. It took me a short
while to adjust to this and I find it might be a little contagious into my life. I'm just not in that big a hurry anymore.
As I watch my type Alpha wife in constant motion, I say, "what's your hurry?" We're going to get to the end game soon enough.
Stephan, these are wonderful folks and maybe we can learn from them, rather than visa versa.
I applaud you and your endevours..keep up the good work, but relax and enjoy the ride...Have a pickle.
I think there's a difference between the "mañana" attitude and credibility. The difference is expectations. Just because someone says they're going to do it mañana, doesn't mean they'll never do it. There will always be those people who are just blowing smoke and never intend to keep their word, but that's different than I'll get to it tomorrow, which turns out to be 7 days later. JMHO.
I think there's a difference between the "mañana" attitude and credibility. The difference is expectations. Just because someone says they're going to do it mañana, doesn't mean they'll never do it. There will always be those people who are just blowing smoke and never intend to keep their word, but that's different than I'll get to it tomorrow, which turns out to be 7 days later. JMHO.
Right, mañana doe's not literally mean tomorrow. It can be tomorrow or even seven day's into the future when someone says I'll see you mañana.
Many American people are notoriously arrogant in pushing their values on people from different cultures. They llike to be in control. Sometimes it is very obvious , sometimes its subtle. Just because people do not jump when you think they should does not mean that your values are better than theirs. Different, yes, and that's a good thing. Tolerance and patience go a long way to a happy life. Trying to control other people is not a good thing, I think. Its funny to hear people say " Well in the US we..........." I say well go back there then if you find it uncomfortable here. I hear Chicago is nice !!
Now here is a good example. GV trying to get people to eat pickles of all things !!!
Please don't say Manana if you don't mean it.........
Part of the charm of Mexicon is their culture. Part of their culture is mananaitis. I, in a million years wouldn't want to
change that. It's the way these dear people live and they appear to me to be quite well adjusted to it. It took me a short
while to adjust to this and I find it might be a little contagious into my life. I'm just not in that big a hurry anymore.
I like that thinking!
I used to get stressed out trying to get something done with the different local agencys. Then one of my old-timer neighbors explained to me that down here, the folks don't really care about the end result, it is all about the process. I can accept that even if I do not agree with it and it does make me less pissed-off when it takes eons to get something completed.
I had a friend who entered the Peace Corp after he graduated from Architecture school. My friend was placed in Sierra Leone in the 70's. My friend said that compared to Sierra Leone, Mexico is juiced on high octane caffeine. At the time, at least in my friends experience in Africa, a promise of meeting later today may mean the meeting happens several days down the road. An agreed upon delivery of tomorrow may come in a week or maybe even two. It was just the way of life. Drove my friend crazy because he was trying to build a community building. I have heard worse about some of the states in the former Soviet Union that had previously operated under communism and are struggling to actually have to produce for a living. All in all, the Mañana-itis drives me crazy but if you communicate well in Mexico you can usually work out the timing to you're liking.
You want me to move to Chicago because I refuse to do business with those that have a difficult time with honesty? I'm expected to just accept sub-standard service because you believe it is acceptable?
We are about to turn the page on 2012 Roberto, and the world economy has never been more tightly bound together. Our company has programmers in Asia, scouts in Europe, readers in Canada, and fools like me writing about hockey in places like Sault Ste. Marie Ontario and Puerto Penasco.
Mexico and Puerto Penasco has an excellent opportunity to take advantage of their best assets, the people. I don't have to develop acceptance for unreliable business practices, I can simply secure the services of others that can also do the job on time and at a fair price.
I happen to believe that this community could be a major telecommunications center that caters to companies that have a heavy bilingual customer base. Residents here are in a perfect position to handle calls from Latin America as well as Canada and United States. For obvious reasons, there are a ton of deportees that would be an excellent labor source for these centers. We are talking about jobs that pay a decent wage. Manana-itis will chase those jobs away.
Roberto, please don't be offended while I simply flush what you had to say with the rest of the waste.
Roberto, please don't be offended while I simply flush what you had to say with the rest of the waste.
Ha, there you are, I was wondering when the real Steve was going to pop out again.... After getting a bad taste in my mouth after reading your stuff when you first arrived, I've been amazed that you've been able to stay in charactor for so long.
Ha, there you are, I was wondering when the real Steve was going to pop out again.... After getting a bad taste in my mouth after reading your stuff when you first arrived, I've been amazed that you've been able to stay in charactor for so long.
Kenny, what did I say that showed my "true colors?" Because I elect to not pay attention to Roberto's suggestion that we move back to the states if I can't accept a lack of professionalism? I have to flush an amazing amount of BS everyday, are you trying to say that you or others don't do the same thing?
I also went back over every post I ever shared with this site; what could you possibly have found an issue with or are you just simply making crap up? Really, I'm curious.
The person on this keyboard, is the exact same person you will get when you meet me, or if you read me. I post using my real name because I do not have to create another persona to express who I am, or who I want others to think I am. It is much easier to just be myself.
Well, my ONLY problem with manana is that it's often due to a lack of planning. Case in point - take a vacation, tow the boat down to San Carlos to fish a tournament, put the boat in the marina. I can hear the reels already screaming in my mind from a marlin strike, yeah, I'm stoked!! Pull over to the marina Pemex... no gas. What? You've got like a 45 bazillion liter tank sitting there and there's NO gas? That's right, amigo. Okay, it's Mexico, go with the flow, these things happen. When do you expect to have gas? Manana, of course. Three days later in this case, the starting day of the tournament, they finally get gas. There's no way you can tell me they didn't know there was a big tournament coming that weekend, hell, they'd known for months! But, somebody, somewhere, dropped the ball and didn't make sure they had any gas in advance.
Manana... it's frustrating at times, but I never lose any sleep over it.
And Stephen, pay no attention to Kenny. It would appear a bridge somewhere is suddenly missing its troll. :puff:
A good Penasco friend was explaining the difference been a Mexican and a Norte Americano.
It is a beautiful warm day - great beach weather. The kid says to his Dad, "Don't go to work today - lets go to the beach!"
The Mexican Dad looks at the kid, looks at the waiting beach, looks at his waiting work and says, "Okay, you are right, today is a good beach day. Tomorrow will be a good work day." and off they go to the beach.
The Norte Americano looks at the kid, looks at the waiting beach, looks at his waiting work and says, "Son, I really need to get this work done. Tomorrow might be a good beach day and we can go then."
A good Penasco friend was explaining the difference been a Mexican and a Norte Americano.
It is a beautiful warm day - great beach weather. The kid says to his Dad, "Don't go to work today - lets go to the beach!"
The Mexican Dad looks at the kid, looks at the waiting beach, looks at his waiting work and says, "Okay, you are right, today is a good beach day. Tomorrow will be a good work day." and off they go to the beach.
The Norte Americano looks at the kid, looks at the waiting beach, looks at his waiting work and says, "Son, I really need to get this work done. Tomorrow might be a good beach day and we can go then."
Different cultures have different priorities.
I couldn't agree more. But, the Mexican who just took his son to the beach, has now pissed off Stephen Heisler because he didn't show up for work.
In the long run, the Mexican doesn't care, because he spent the day with his son. Life is short and Mexicans perceive death differently than the gringos do. Just read Octavio Paz's "Labrynth of Solitude". So, the Mexican knows he pissed Stephen Heisler off, and he may feel bad, but he also thinks to himself, "I spent a wonderful day with mi hijo, and who knows - I might be dead tomorrow and I'll regret having gone to work - I'll never regret spending time with my son."
Stephen - I just want to add that I don't want you to feel like you're being picked on (at least not by me). But living in Mexico for 7 months is a tiny fraction of the time that it will take you, or anyone for that matter, to try and understand Mexico and Mexicans. Some people will never understand - and maybe we shouldn't even try to understand. We should, as "outsiders", appreciate the good and the bad that the people and the country have to offer. We may not like everything about it, but it is what it is. It's not up to us to try and change a country that has most of its customs rooted in hundreds of years of history.
And P.S., after 20+ years of travelling around different parts of Mexico, 10 years being married to a Mexican (and basically he entire family), just when I think I might have it sort of "figured out" - something happens that reminds me just how wrong I am! LOL
Ha, there you are, I was wondering when the real Steve was going to pop out again.... After getting a bad taste in my mouth after reading your stuff when you first arrived, I've been amazed that you've been able to stay in charactor for so long.
What are you talking about Kenny? You got the right person I remember you had problems with Steve S.
I'm not trying to change anybody. Heck, I'm also married to a great Mexican girl and will hopefully never really figure her out.
Maria's family understands responsibility and work-ethic. They have lived up to there end of the bargain for the last 300 years. The cattle depend on the family and the family depends on the cattle. I've seen the operation, I've spent the last eight years with Maria, and I've worked with dependable and hard-working Mexicans for my entire life.
You can't group an entire country of people into a stereo-type. Responsibility is just that.
I'm not trying to change Puerto Penasco, or the life-style of the manana-itis infected folks. I simply have elected to not do business with those that can't understand or comprehend the value of honesty and communication.
A simple "ok son,lets go to the beach after I call the man that is waiting for me ask to postpone our appointment for another day," is not difficult.
You want me to move to Chicago because I refuse to do business with those that have a difficult time with honesty? I'm expected to just accept sub-standard service because you believe it is acceptable?
We are about to turn the page on 2012 Roberto, and the world economy has never been more tightly bound together. Our company has programmers in Asia, scouts in Europe, readers in Canada, and fools like me writing about hockey in places like Sault Ste. Marie Ontario and Puerto Penasco.
Mexico and Puerto Penasco has an excellent opportunity to take advantage of their best assets, the people. I don't have to develop acceptance for unreliable business practices, I can simply secure the services of others that can also do the job on time and at a fair price.
I happen to believe that this community could be a major telecommunications center that caters to companies that have a heavy bilingual customer base. Residents here are in a perfect position to handle calls from Latin America as well as Canada and United States. For obvious reasons, there are a ton of deportees that would be an excellent labor source for these centers. We are talking about jobs that pay a decent wage. Manana-itis will chase those jobs away.
Roberto, please don't be offended while I simply flush what you had to say with the rest of the waste.
Hey Pal, touchy touchy. Flush away, flush away. No mi importa. You could not possibly offend me. My comment was part of what I thought was a general discussion of differing cultural values. The neat human stuff that makes the world interesting. There were several interposing posts between your initial one and mine, I was commenting to everyone and agreeing with some. If I was talking to you directly I would have no problem putting your name down.
Now I will communicate to you directly, just so you know !!
SH Sez: I refuse to do business with those that have a difficult time with honesty?
Now you bring up honesty! Honestly now, I thought the discussion was about cultural values and attitudes. So now if someone chooses to not do business with you they are dishonest? If someone does not have the same values as you they are dishonest? Hmmm, sorry that's quite a magnificent leap and perhaps a tad arrogant there Stephen. ( I used your name here notice)
While you have certainly gained a wealth of detailed knowledge, opinions and an attitude in the whopping 7 months you have lived here (out in one of the high rise condos with the tourists I think?) Maybe after another 5 or 6 years a little understanding will seep in. There are a few in the world who do not think the American Way is the ONLY way. Oh and thanks for letting me know what year it is. I had forgotten, but that means nothing to me anymore. Maybe Manana !!
I certainly hope that outside influences do not make Mexico another hustle bustle country of selfish self possessed people. I'm really not to worried. The history of Mexico is littered with the bodies of those knowledgeable people that came from other countries to tell the Mexicans how to live.
Stephen, you are missing out. Try living in a foreign country, its a lot of fun.
Please tear down the worthless unfinished towers around Penasco and beaches and make a fresh start. City would look allot better.
We'll get right on that for you....
Manana. :wink:
Seriously, though - if the city wanted to remove some of those unfinished projects, then instead of going after the builders to clean the sites up, the city should just do what it did with the Fiesta Boozer when it finally became a safety hazard, and run an ad saying "Here is where the scrap metal is.... Go get it"
I mean, people are going to go ahead and park their boat wherever they want to.... right? :rofl:
Spot on about patience and tolerance. :thumbsup:
We of the Mirador Neighborhood Watch Association (MINEWASS )are well aware of the boat parking issues on Sinaloa and keep a sharp eye out for problems. David phoned me this morning about a neighborhood issue.
Mexico and Puerto Penasco has an excellent opportunity to take advantage of their best assets, the people. I don't have to develop acceptance for unreliable business practices, I can simply secure the services of others that can also do the job on time and at a fair price.
I happen to believe that this community could be a major telecommunications center that caters to companies that have a heavy bilingual customer base. Residents here are in a perfect position to handle calls from Latin America as well as Canada and United States. For obvious reasons, there are a ton of deportees that would be an excellent labor source for these centers. We are talking about jobs that pay a decent wage. Manana-itis will chase those jobs away.
Stephen - you fail to see the hypocrisy of your own "professional standard" here...
The things you characterize as "opportunities" above may not appeal to the people that you would have to rely on in order to be successful.... get it?
Just because YOU see opportunity, does not mean other people don't see an enormous waste of time and resources.
Do whatever you want, and enjoy whatever success you can along the way, but you CAN'T morally or ethically levy the burden of failure onto the backs of other people (unless you happen to be a Democrat serving in US Government.... but I digress)
This one's for you:
The US businessman came at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The businessman complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them. The Mexican replied only a little while.
The businessman then asked why he didn't stay out longer and catch more fish? The Mexican said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs. The businessman then asked, but what do you do with the rest of your time? The Mexican fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take a siesta with my wife, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos; I have a full and busy life, señor."
The businessman scoffed, "I am a Harvard MBA and I could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats; eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman, you would sell directly to the processor and eventually open your own cannery. You would control the product, processing and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually New York City where you would run your expanding enterprise."
The Mexican fisherman asked, "But señor, how long will this all take?" To which the businessman replied, "15-20 years." "But what then, señor?"
The businessman laughed and said, "That's the best part! When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You would make millions."
"Millions, señor? Then what?"
The businessman said, "Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take a siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos."
The fisherman, still smiling, looked up and said, "No, gracias"
-Author Unknown
Maybe the fisherman should have said: "Ok- Let's get started Manana..."
Stephen - you fail to see the hypocrisy of your own "professional standard" here...
The things you characterize as "opportunities" above may not appeal to the people that you would have to rely on in order to be successful.... get it?
Just because YOU see opportunity, does not mean other people don't see an enormous waste of time and resources.
Do whatever you want, and enjoy whatever success you can along the way, but you CAN'T morally or ethically levy the burden of failure onto the backs of other people (unless you happen to be a Democrat serving in US Government.... but I digress)
This one's for you:
The US businessman came at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The businessman complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them. The Mexican replied only a little while.
The businessman then asked why he didn't stay out longer and catch more fish? The Mexican said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs. The businessman then asked, but what do you do with the rest of your time? The Mexican fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take a siesta with my wife, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos; I have a full and busy life, señor."
The businessman scoffed, "I am a Harvard MBA and I could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats; eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman, you would sell directly to the processor and eventually open your own cannery. You would control the product, processing and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually New York City where you would run your expanding enterprise."
The Mexican fisherman asked, "But señor, how long will this all take?" To which the businessman replied, "15-20 years." "But what then, señor?"
The businessman laughed and said, "That's the best part! When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You would make millions."
"Millions, señor? Then what?"
The businessman said, "Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take a siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos."
The fisherman, still smiling, looked up and said, "No, gracias"
-Author Unknown
Maybe the fisherman should have said: "Ok- Let's get started Manana..."
Thanks rb moore - I was waiting for someone to post this. Two things to be learned from this: (1) Everyone has a different definition of "success", and (2) Be careful what you wish for.
We of the Mirador Neighborhood Watch Association (MINEWASS )are well aware of the boat parking issues on Sinaloa and keep a sharp eye out for problems. David phoned me this morning about a neighborhood issue.
Just wait until the offshore bite picks up a little more... you'll have another episode of "neighborhood issues" rolling into town
Just listen for the clatter (and the smell) of the big Ford diesel...
The Moore isn't digressing, he whining and it makes my day. Thanks Moore.
You're a man of simple pleasures. I can appreciate that.
But, as ye sow, so too shall ye reap...
I'm sure you'll be ok, just as long as you croak before the currency system collapses due to an unpayable 50 Trillion dollar future burden of Medicare and Social Security.
I'm digressing again... Let's just leave this thread hijack hanging on "Simple pleasures", shall we?
I'm not trying to change anybody. Heck, I'm also married to a great Mexican girl and will hopefully never really figure her out.
Maria's family understands responsibility and work-ethic. They have lived up to there end of the bargain for the last 300 years. The cattle depend on the family and the family depends on the cattle. I've seen the operation, I've spent the last eight years with Maria, and I've worked with dependable and hard-working Mexicans for my entire life.
You can't group an entire country of people into a stereo-type. Responsibility is just that.
I'm not trying to change Puerto Penasco, or the life-style of the manana-itis infected folks. I simply have elected to not do business with those that can't understand or comprehend the value of honesty and communication.
A simple "ok son,lets go to the beach after I call the man that is waiting for me ask to postpone our appointment for another day," is not difficult.
So true! It's a matter of doing what you say you are going to do or at least properly communicating your intentions.
I simply have elected to not do business with those that can't understand or comprehend the value of honesty and communication.
Would that that problem were just confined to the folks you deal with here. I had a life time of people saying they were going to place that order tomorrow.
But manana never came. A wise man moves on. An idiot keeps buying into it and expects different results. Move on, get your circle of good, loyal clients,
treat them well and reap the rewards. After many, many years I've learned that you have business friends and real friends. The business friends leave if
they don't need you. The real friends are always there when you need each other, It works both ways. Now where's my pickles?
So true! It's a matter of doing what you say you are going to do or at least properly communicating your intentions.
I think the personal value you guys are tip-toeing around is integrity, and the personal commitment and adherence to contract (whether verbal or otherwise)... yes?
Well, superiority of contract is a VERY western (read: European Caucasian) concept; and integrity is a PERSONAL attribute - it is not cultural, nor racial. I know many Mexican people who keep their word once they give it.
Therefore, any comparison of "Mexicans" integrity versus "Americans" integrity is utter nonsense (to me at least) ...
People simply are who they are. The choice to deal with them (or not) is YOURS.
You're a man of simple pleasures. I can appreciate that.
But, as ye sow, so too shall ye reap...
I'm sure you'll be ok, just as long as you croak before the currency system collapses due to an unpayable 50 Trillion dollar future burden of Medicare and Social Security.
I'm digressing again... Let's just leave this thread hijack hanging on "Simple pleasures", shall we?
No, lets leave in on your telling word "Democrats", instead of the other less political words a man with you vast vocabulary could, or should I say, should have chosen if your were not just trying to make a party biased political point.
No, lets leave in on your telling word "Democrats", instead of the other less political words a man with you vast vocabulary could, or should I say, should have chosen if your were not just trying to make a party biased political point.
HERE HERE...!
You're absolutely right.
Please substitute "Worthless, Snivelling, Favor-Trading, Two-Faced, Back-Stabbing, Do-Goody Politicians in general" for "Democrats" in my post above.... :cheers:
You're absolutely right.
Please substitute "Worthless, Snivelling, Favor-Trading, Two-Faced, Back-Stabbing, Do-Goody Politicians in general" for "Democrats" in my post above.... :cheers:
Hmmm, gives one the impression that you do not like politicians in general ? Of course I could be wrong about that, might be a cultural difference.
Stephen - you fail to see the hypocrisy of your own "professional standard" here...
The things you characterize as "opportunities" above may not appeal to the people that you would have to rely on in order to be successful.... get it?
Just because YOU see opportunity, does not mean other people don't see an enormous waste of time and resources.
Do whatever you want, and enjoy whatever success you can along the way, but you CAN'T morally or ethically levy the burden of failure onto the backs of other people (unless you happen to be a Democrat serving in US Government.... but I digress)
This one's for you:
The US businessman came at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The businessman complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them. The Mexican replied only a little while.
The businessman then asked why he didn't stay out longer and catch more fish? The Mexican said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs. The businessman then asked, but what do you do with the rest of your time? The Mexican fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take a siesta with my wife, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos; I have a full and busy life, señor."
The businessman scoffed, "I am a Harvard MBA and I could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats; eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman, you would sell directly to the processor and eventually open your own cannery. You would control the product, processing and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually New York City where you would run your expanding enterprise."
The Mexican fisherman asked, "But señor, how long will this all take?" To which the businessman replied, "15-20 years." "But what then, señor?"
The businessman laughed and said, "That's the best part! When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You would make millions."
"Millions, señor? Then what?"
The businessman said, "Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take a siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos."
The fisherman, still smiling, looked up and said, "No, gracias"
-Author Unknown
Maybe the fisherman should have said: "Ok- Let's get started Manana..."
Two words and I dont need a story to tell it. OPPORTUNITY COST.
Hmmm, gives one the impression that you do not like politicians in general ? Of course I could be wrong about that, might be a cultural difference.
Moore doesnt believe in government revenue. My vote for bringing down the debt, take away public education, make everyone go to a private school. Definitely no free birth control for all those pleasure F#$%ing females. Screw it, lets go back to Darwin, survival of the fittest, you know, **** on everyone that cant help themselves. Nobody needs help pick yourself up by the boot straps GD. Take away SS and medicare, that should fix the problem. We can bankroll the money we saved from all the above and find a new country to start shooting cruise missiles into, keep building the ULTIMATE WEAPON that we'll never use, tanks that will never see battle.
Firstly- Welcome back from your forum vacation. Your pal Jerry and I had a BLAST of a conversation about your walker while you were out. Don't ask me why, because I have no friggin clue.
Now- regarding government revenue: Your statement above is not 100% accurate.
I believe that taxation is coercion, and that coercing someone to surrender their legitimate earnings to you, and then using that money in ways that the original earner does not approve of, is analogous to theft- and obviously, I think theft sucks dog-balls.
You must remember- the US income tax system is clearly documented to be 100% voluntary; even though the IRS comes after you pretty hard if you fail to "voluntarily" participate.
Now- to me, the merits of a "voluntary" tax system should be buttressed by the power of personal choice- ie: there should be a list of categories on our tax return forms, from which we can personally select which gov't programs we want our taxes to go towards, and which ones we don't.
That way, anyone who wants more tanks/planes/battleships, and fewer museums can direct their tax dollars as they wish, while people who want more education, or publicly funded medical care, etc can direct their taxes appropriately so as well...
Now what, pray tell, would be morally wrong with such a system of choice?
We get to vote for our representatives, right?- so, why can't we also vote on how these representatives use OUR money?
Firstly- Welcome back from your forum vacation. Your pal Jerry and I had a BLAST of a conversation about your walker while you were out. Don't ask me why, because I have no friggin clue.
Now- regarding government revenue: Your statement above is not 100% accurate.
I believe that taxation is coercion, and that coercing someone to surrender their legitimate earnings to you, and then using that money in ways that the original earner does not approve of, is analogous to theft- and obviously, I think theft sucks dog-balls.
You must remember- the US income tax system is clearly documented to be 100% voluntary; even though the IRS comes after you pretty hard if you fail to "voluntarily" participate.
Now- to me, the merits of a "voluntary" tax system should be buttressed by the power of personal choice- ie: there should be a list of categories on our tax return forms, from which we can personally select which gov't programs we want our taxes to go towards, and which ones we don't.
That way, anyone who wants more tanks/planes/battleships, and fewer museums can direct their tax dollars as they wish, while people who want more education, or publicly funded medical care, etc can direct their taxes appropriately so as well...
Now what, pray tell, would be morally wrong with such a system of choice?
We get to vote for our representatives, right?- so, why can't we also vote on how these representatives use OUR money?
As long as we're so off topic, I might as well take it over the rainbow.
Firstly- Welcome back from your forum vacation. Your pal Jerry and I had a BLAST of a conversation about your walker while you were out. Don't ask me why, because I have no friggin clue.
Now- regarding government revenue: Your statement above is not 100% accurate.
I believe that taxation is coercion, and that coercing someone to surrender their legitimate earnings to you, and then using that money in ways that the original earner does not approve of, is analogous to theft- and obviously, I think theft sucks dog-balls.
You must remember- the US income tax system is clearly documented to be 100% voluntary; even though the IRS comes after you pretty hard if you fail to "voluntarily" participate.
Now- to me, the merits of a "voluntary" tax system should be buttressed by the power of personal choice- ie: there should be a list of categories on our tax return forms, from which we can personally select which gov't programs we want our taxes to go towards, and which ones we don't.
That way, anyone who wants more tanks/planes/battleships, and fewer museums can direct their tax dollars as they wish, while people who want more education, or publicly funded medical care, etc can direct their taxes appropriately so as well...
Now what, pray tell, would be morally wrong with such a system of choice?
We get to vote for our representatives, right?- so, why can't we also vote on how these representatives use OUR money?
I understand what you're saying and it is logical, however I fear that if we had a system like that it wouldn't be too far off of unlimited campaign contributions. I can only imagine if our tax system was like that right now and you think the defense budget is big now?! People would be persuaded to give their tax money to sectors only favorable to making money. A man that works for Lockheed Martin isn't going to willingly designate his tax money for anything but defense considering that's how he makes a living through government contracts. This man is not going to be designating his tax money towards public education. Obviously that is a big hypothetical and I like factual but it pushes a point that I think that kind of system would be easily corrupted as well.
Quick story, my buddy is an accountant and lives in a North Phoenix neighborhood very close to me. The City of Phoenix a year or so ago installed traffic control round abouts on the street that my buddy lives on and one of these happened to be in front of his house. The neighborhood had to sign off on it and everyone did and everything was installed. Within 6 months 2 of the 3 had already been removed at neighbors requests. After a drunk ass crashed his truck into my buddy's house he finally called the city and said get this thing out of here. Ok, couple of weeks ago we're driving and we're talking about this and I said to my buddy, what a waste of money that was by the city. Maybe was up for a year and god knows what that cost to have it installed and then taken down, lines repainted. Complete joke, so my buddy who's an accountant says, see Joe that's why I write off everything I can so I dont have to pay state tax for BS like that. Im thinking to myself, well he does have a good point but if you're not paying state tax then your money also isn't going to things that matter. I dont think that is the answer, government is stupid some of the time so Im going to loophole the **** out of this and give them nothing. My buddy is a republican and I guarantee that both him and MOORE voted no on Prop "i dont even remember" to add a ONE CENT sales tax to the already cheap **** you're buying from China and AZ voted it down. ONE CENT SALES TAX FOR EDUCATION AND IT DIDNT PASS ~~~~~~SMH
I love how the people that hate tax are even defiant over 1 CENT!!! lol I mean ok I understand you hate government, you hate taxes but 1 CENT increase so the teacher that has to put up with your snot nose kid can have 10 more pencils a month or new books/learning material ???????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SMH I used to throw pennies away in the trash can because i hated the sound of them jingaling in my pocket and we say NO??????!!!!!!!!!!
My wife is a Teacher... I actually voted yes on Prop 204.
I'm a huge proponent of children not getting shafted simply because adults tend to be complete idiots.
I also can't see how a system based upon personal choice could be corrupted.. I agree with your point that people would align their voluntary tax allocations with their own personal interests, but that's kind of the point... The DOLLARS would demonstrate to the Politicians what their budgets should be, and what programs are ACTUALLY important to the citizenry (in aggregate).
Imagine a system where John Murtha's taxpayer funded, vacant, private use airport could have never been built; or a world where we only fight the wars that the PEOPLE decide we can afford to fight.
Imagine a world where the politicians can't AFFORD to sit around arguing about setting up an Internet kill switch (which is nothing but a tool of mass government censorship in disguise) , or where they can't afford to build datacenters to hold ZETABYTES of your cell phone and text message data (to be used against you later when some law gets passed that outlaws whatever it was you were texting about)
Imagine all the people.... living for today.... yooo-hoooo, oooooooo.
Ok, between my little back and forth with Roberto the Mirador Meter Maid, and then Kenny "Don't call me Democrat" Clever, and now this, I am now guilty of being involved in THREE hijacks of this thread...
I'm clueless. Got a funny call today from somebody asking why I am doing GoPenasco Radio with Classic Rock and not country or local music. I was unable to respond before the call ended. I pretty much got chewed out for trying to attract hockey readers to come visit this resort community. Oh, the pictures on GoPenasco.com are also offensive.
Combine that with all the great comments on this thread and I have to believe I've picked the perfect community to spend the rest of my life as a part of.
To be so blessed... in a single day I've learned so much about myself.
I'm a bad man because I live where I always dreamed of living...on a beach in Mexico.
I'm out of touch because of the suggestion that manana-itis has a direct link to empty pockets.
I'm the ugly American because I expect an appointment to be honored, or at the minimum, be told by the other party that he is not going to make it.
I think I'll go back to writing my stories, drinking Corona, streaming classic rock, taking pictures of beautiful girls, and failing to submerse myself in the culture of Mexico.
Somebody tell Roger to play it a little louder. Red boy, white boy, black boy, we all got the same blues. That sure sounds good with my wife smiling as I enjoy my simple pleasures.
I think I'll go back to writing my stories, drinking Corona, streaming classic rock, taking pictures of beautiful girls, and failing to submerse myself in the culture of Mexico.
Somebody tell Roger to play it a little louder. Red boy, white boy, black boy, we all got the same blues. That sure sounds good with my wife smiling as I enjoy my simple pleasures.
Moore...you can't help yourself...sort of makes me blue. Back to the issue it isn't much different than in the rural west.People work in bursts and when it's Elk season well fix your own roof
Manana-itis....har! ...this condition is as old as the hills, and has been talked about endlessly. If I'm not mistaken it was a few years ago that some Mexican nationals and American transplants decided to get together and get this worked out once and for all. Lock themselves in a room and vowed not to come out until a some type of conclusion to this had been made. After days they finally emerged and anounced that in order for people to better understand and relate to this epedemic, they decreed that the phrase "Manana-maybe" would now be instituted to better imply a time reference.