Mexican law put into effect to cap cash real estate transactions at 500k pesos

Wow- no more cash real estate transactions in Mexico for more than 500k pesos (about $40k US) will be allowed, and no more "other" cash transactions (cars, etc) in amounts exceeding 200k pesos (about $15k US) will be allowed.




5 years in mexican prison for violators.



Large Cash Transactions Banned In Mexico - Forbes



It will be interesting to see what effect (if any) this has on the Sonorran real estate market - last weekend in Las Conchas I saw more "for sale" signs (and more sub-200k list prices) than I have ever seen in my 20 years of visiting RP...

This just means the actual handling of paper money during a transaction. For example, if I had $200K and I wanted to pay cash for a house/condo, I could wire the money to the seller through an international wire transfer. But, the bank and the notario or lawyer still has to report the transaction.

I agree that this law has no relevance to transactions carried out in the ELECTRONIC banking universe.

But, you have to understand what this law REALLY means.

The paper money that can only be legally printed and issued by a government, is concurrently being deemed (by that SAME government) to be illegal or improper for use in valid transactions of legitimate commerce between two willing parties.

They might as will spell in out simple terms right on the notes:

"This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private; EXCEPT in transactions where the bearer decides that they want a new place to live, or a new car to drive"

Dangerous legal precendent is being set.

Government currency control measures NEVER produce the desired results, and they never end well. Reference Argentina in the 80's, Mexico in the early 90's, Zimbabwe in the early 2000's... ad infinitum.

Governments (via the large global commercial banks) want ALL currency exchange to be performed over wires, where the transactions can be monitored, and global markets fully regulated, governed, and otherwise completely controlled... from London.

Consider the following question:

Why is 200k sitting in a checking account considered to be more "acceptable" for carrying out a trade, than the same 200k in the form of printed bank notes?

I'm certainly no expert on finances, but it doesn't seem to be that the tender is what is invalid - it's the process of payment. I interpret it as them wanting an electronic paper trail to follow. But, at some point somebody has to make a cash deposit into an account somewhere, regardless of how many times that money gets electronically transferred and wired to various accounts.

Don't you think they're just trying to stop cartel members from walking into a real estate office or car dealership with a suitcase full of laundered cash and no record of where or how the money was earned in the first place?

Moore know exactly why the law was passed but it's not as exciting as a good conspiricy.
It's all part of the plot for world domination by a mysterious and yet unidentified force. Maybe it 's the Illuminate come back to life. Remember that eye on the dollar bill proves that they exist !!

Hey, I thought you were gonna stick to fishin reports. This post started out good but meandered close to Rants and Raves territory.

mis2810 said:

Don't you think they're just trying to stop cartel members from walking into a real estate office or car dealership with a suitcase full of laundered cash and no record of where or how the money was earned in the first place?

Yeah, I think that's exactly what they are trying to do...

unfortunately, laws apply to EVERYONE, not just drug dealers or those who maintain nefarious or illegal activities.

I agree that it would be "odd" for someone who is not a drug dealer to have 500k pesos in a suitcase under their bed... but I don't think it is necessarily unlikely or out of the question. Many people (especially older people who lost their livelihood during the depression in the 30's) don't trust the fractional reserve nature of government sponsored banking systems, and prefer to keep their cash and financial assets in non-electronic forms (like cash and real estate).

A physical transferrence of real estate ownership does not require an electronic currency transaction - the previous owner of the deed only needs to record a name change on the deed to the property in the prescence of a notario, and they could then walk away with the suitcase of cash - it WAS perfectly legal... until now.

Under this law- such a person could not aquire expensive real assets using non-electronic cash.

This law is a coercion ploy to get people to distrust government issued paper money in large amounts, based on the "It must be laundered drug money" principle... and I think it is also a measure to try and get more people to take on electronic debit cards and mortgage debt.

The very things that the US population is now learning are very damaging to personal long term fiancial well-being, are now being coercively pushed south of the border.

I think that this might be a slippery slope, because there might be MANY people who maintain large physical cash stashes that are NOT drug dealers, but this new law will force the government, and the banks and notarios, to be suspicious of them anyway; and and it will put a stop their ability to purchase what they want (in spite of the fact that they have never been criminals, but have instead only managed to earn and save large balances of cash...)

In actuality- I think over longer terms this law might serve to restore pricing in Mexico back to levels that are more in-line with the exchange rate of the mex peso rather than the exchange rate of the dollar, so some good may actually come of this for poorer mexican citizens who live in areas dominated by dollar based tourism, IMO...

However, the flip side is that it might NOT be good for International (American) speculators who thought that investment in a dollar supported mexican real estate markets was (or is) a good idea...

Again, I'm just saying that government induced currency control measures never end well. The law on unintended consequences always seems to rear it's ugly head....


Perhaps this time will be different.

Roberto said:

Moore know exactly why the law was passed but it's not as exciting as a good conspiricy.
It's all part of the plot for world domination by a mysterious and yet unidentified force. Maybe it 's the Illuminate come back to life. Remember that eye on the dollar bill proves that they exist !!

Hey, I thought you were gonna stick to fishin reports. This post started out good but meandered close to Rants and Raves territory.

I think you need to spend more time reading and thinking about what I ACTUALLY WROTE, instead of trying to INTERPRET what you believe I was actually thinking when I wrote it.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar... a fact frequently lost on those who believe that they know what we think (or why we think it) better than we do.

No further "remote couch diagnosis" is necessary on this topic, Dr. Freud.

The Mexican Government want to get their cut.Try throwing down more than 10k cash in an American deal and see what happens. (...Pretend I insult Ayan Rand in this spot..)

Meanwhile at the beach Great Blue Heron, Sounds, All About Birds - Cornell Lab of Ornithology

Moore Sez: But, you have to understand what this law REALLY means.
This law is a coercion ploy

Followed not by a cigar, but speculation, implication and opinion.

Roberto said:

Moore Sez: But, you have to understand what this law REALLY means.
This law is a coercion ploy

Followed not by a cigar, but speculation, implication and opinion.

so then, enlighten me to the fact, Doc.


Let's play a game of true or false:


A) A Nation's currency is the property of the people (in aggregate) T or F?

B) A Nation's government is supposed to be elected (or appointed) to do what is in the best interest of the people (in aggregate) T or F?

C) In the entire history of humanity, there has never been an episode of government induced currency control that has not ended up harming the people (in aggregate) T or F?



So, where you chastise me for speculation, and implication, I merely rhetort with an application of the lessons of history...

my opinion (as I clearly stated above) is that history tells us that actions such as these are the first step onto the slippery slope of increased government thuggery and oppression, and that all such moves in the past have ended badly.

I stated clearly enough that such a scenario may NOT come to pass, if "this time it's different".

I would love to hear your viewpoints on how this time may, indeed, be different.

Come join me in the pleasant, 80 degree hot tub of speculation, instead of trying to poke at me with sticks for doing only what is my God given right (expressing my personal viewpoints and opinions)


Ok, NOW I am dangerously close to ranting. However- I should only point out that it is due FAR more to your insidious nature of scrutinzing ME instead of scrutinizing what was the original (and intended) topic of discussion.

to mis2910 : THANK YOU for taking time to discuss the topic of currency controls with me (the topic of this thread)


To everyone else who posted a reply in this thread that had nothing to do with currency controls.... I invite you humbly (and sincerely) to piss off.

jerry said:

Try throwing down more than 10k cash in an American deal and see what happens

A quit claim deed and title change is EXTREMELY easy in the US. Nothing but paperwork and 20 minutes at the County Recorder's office.

and, regarding the governement "getting their cut" - I made no disparagement about property taxes in my original post (nor in any since)


Besides - the governement does "get theirs", don't they? Does not the government THEMSELVES print the very currency that they are now saying will not be legal for large transactions?

"We print it for you to use, and then deny you it's use" - Can you not see the hypocrisy in that? Or does it simply not matter to you?

Maybe it shouldn't matter to me, either; except that I see the effect of the results that similar stupidity is having on Southern Europe, and the last thing I want is another Greece taking place in a country where I have friends, and where I enjoy spending time.

he's getting close to trickle down,low taxes on the rich magic bean world again ...Stewart!!!!!! to your point Moore(you free market pirate lovin bastardo) the Mexicans claim 30 plus percent of the gain on property sales.They almost never get it and with these cash deals throwing down cash on the side makes the gain just go poof

moore_rb said:

A quit claim deed and title change is EXTREMELY easy in the US. Nothing but paperwork and 20 minutes at the County Recorder's office.

and, regarding the governement "getting their cut" - I made no disparagement about property taxes in my original post (nor in any since)


Besides - the governement does "get theirs", don't they? Does not the government THEMSELVES print the very currency that they are now saying will not be legal for large transactions?

"We print it for you to use, and then deny you it's use" - Can you not see the hypocrisy in that? Or does it simply not matter to you?

Maybe it shouldn't matter to me, either; except that I see the effect of the results that similar stupidity is having on Southern Europe, and the last thing I want is another Greece taking place in a country where I have friends, and where I enjoy spending time.

jerry said:

he's getting close to trickle down,low taxes on the rich magic bean world again ...

Have you ever considered that, after you remove those who were born under the "silver spoon" principle, the only remaining difference between rich and poor is personal accomplishment?

If you would merely dis-aggregate economically productive and accomplished people from the likes of parasitic Rockefeller and Rothschild types, you might find that "taxing the rich to feed the poor" is not so ugly a premise to most of us who are merely tired of being "lumped" in with the Rockefellers and Rothschilds... and are also tired of being expected to pay more than our share so that the super-rich, who hide behind the veil of corporate obstructionism, may pay less than thiers.

And, to your point regarding capital gains - ALL capital gains are merely a method for taxing your income TWICE - once when you earn it, and a 2nd time when you go to sell whatever you invested it in to protect its purchasing value from eroding due to government and central bank induced inflation.


Government debasement of currency is the ONLY reason "capital gains" as a concept exists at all.

moore_rb said:

INTERPRET what you believe I was actually thinking when I wrote it.

Not to worry Moore, we know that actual thinking was in no way involved.

Kenny said:

Not to worry Moore, we know that actual thinking was in no way involved.

I see no need to waste any time responding, other than to ask you whether you know how to read or comprehend English:

moore_rb said:

mis2910 : THANK YOU for taking time to discuss the topic of currency controls with me (the topic of this thread)


To everyone else who posted a reply in this thread that had nothing to do with currency controls.... I invite you humbly (and sincerely) to piss off.

*checks my mattress.... **** still nothing*

I think the idea will work very much like the border fence idea doe's, there's always a way around it.

*starts checking everyones mattresses ... (dons surgical gloves first)*

http://www.yale.edu/tax/docs/rules_def_8300.pdf Same in US over$10,000

JGattheSea said:

*starts checking everyones mattresses ... (dons surgical gloves first)*

mines was in a hollowed out bible I hiested from a hojo's...I miss it...the cash that is

If I had the cash to buy a $120,000 condo I'd be happy to report it to whomever would want to know and to pay my fair share of taxes on it. Then I'd sit my ass on my patio every single day for the rest of my life and enjoy my purchase and thank God that I had the money to buy it in the first place. I ain't got nothing to hide if I've worked hard to make the money.

garyd said:

http://www.yale.edu/tax/docs/rules_def_8300.pdf Same in US over$10,000

Boy, now there's a slippery slope if I ever heard of one.

Buy gold and then pay the person in gold. Paper money is worhtless anyway. Mexico simply does not enforce any of its laws

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2012/10/21/20121021phoenix-metro-becomes-virtual-investors-housing-market.html. 20% of the homes in Phoenix are now owned by Hedge Funds......I wonder if they will get in the Mexican market.If they did it might get the half done towers completed and Puerto Penasco would look a bit better. On the darker side the 1% is trying to put us all back on the plantation..spending script
at the company store.

moore_rb said:

I agree that this law has no relevance to transactions carried out in the ELECTRONIC banking universe.

But, you have to understand what this law REALLY means.

The paper money that can only be legally printed and issued by a government, is concurrently being deemed (by that SAME government) to be illegal or improper for use in valid transactions of legitimate commerce between two willing parties.

They might as will spell in out simple terms right on the notes:

"This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private; EXCEPT in transactions where the bearer decides that they want a new place to live, or a new car to drive"

Dangerous legal precendent is being set.

Government currency control measures NEVER produce the desired results, and they never end well. Reference Argentina in the 80's, Mexico in the early 90's, Zimbabwe in the early 2000's... ad infinitum.

Governments (via the large global commercial banks) want ALL currency exchange to be performed over wires, where the transactions can be monitored, and global markets fully regulated, governed, and otherwise completely controlled... from London.

"Government currency control measures NEVER produce the desired results, and they never end well. Reference Argentina in the 80's, Mexico in the early 90's, Zimbabwe in the early 2000's... ad infinitum."

And the US will most likely follow suit in 2013-2014. We are on our way, regardless of party. It's gonna get ugly folks.

And, that is my guess why you see so many nice, large beachfront homes in Las Conchas for sale. It's not that they 'need' the money. It's that they want their money. Because.... if they don't sell now, they'll probably never get their money out of their properties. Once the dollar bubble goes off in the States, all real estate values will implode as well as Mexican vacation and investment real estate.

Man oh man. If I felt as bad about the state of the world as some of you do, I'd shoot myself.

Roberto said:

Man oh man. If I felt as bad about the state of the world as some of you do, I'd shoot myself.

Fearful wussies don't shoot themselfs Roberto, but they are quick to send others into harms way.

How it shakes out is still open to debate. THAT it will shake out is all but certain.

I peruse this sight just about every day. Some articles are chaff, but several times a week I learn very important insights I never would have known.

ZeroHedge | On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

Are you Tyler Durden?

Roberto said:

Are you Tyler Durden?

Tyler Durden is the nom de plume of an entire staff of editoral contributors.


To those of you who know what to expect over the next several years, take comfort in the fact that the 3 smartest and most successful people on this forum (Roberto, Jerry, Kenny) think you're all nuts.

and, regarding the "harmless" act of having to report large cash transactions to taxing authorities... why is $10,000 (or 500k pesos) the limit? why not $1000? why not $50? Once the legal precedent is set, the law can be "tailored" to maximize the burden on the largest segments of the population, and THAT is the real slippery slope of government.

So, all you "Jerry's" out there who think that the law is just, as long as it treats "rich" people more unfairly than it treats "poor" people, pay careful attention to the fact that the REAL end effect of law is that it affects the LARGEST segments of a population the most... not the richest segments.


So, just about the point that society finally comes around and figures out that the war on drugs is lost, you can expect any and all legalization measures to carry some pretty hefty "premiums" of use... like the tobacco tax on steroids.

How else will the tax authorities make up for all the revenue lost via the criminalization of non-reported cash purchases by the nefarious "drug dealers"... I mean, "pharmeceutical companies" only pay minimalist corporate taxes (and the ones incorporated in the Cayman's pay even less)?


But of course, none of this has anything to do with real estate - I can't wait until resale prices in RP are lower than material costs... Oh wait- You mean they already ARE lower? and STILL there is no one coming in to buy the available inventory?


Hmmm..... look out below.

rplarry said:

"Government currency control measures NEVER produce the desired results, and they never end well. Reference Argentina in the 80's, Mexico in the early 90's, Zimbabwe in the early 2000's... ad infinitum."

And the US will most likely follow suit in 2013-2014. We are on our way, regardless of party. It's gonna get ugly folks.

And, that is my guess why you see so many nice, large beachfront homes in Las Conchas for sale. It's not that they 'need' the money. It's that they want their money. Because.... if they don't sell now, they'll probably never get their money out of their properties. Once the dollar bubble goes off in the States, all real estate values will implode as well as Mexican vacation and investment real estate.

Now you're talking like a whacky conspiracy theorist, too Larry.... I must have infected you with my open minded "mental illness"

but don't worry- our resident head-shrink will straighten you right out. Just so long as you don't park in front of his favorite machine-gun bunker.

Kenny said:

I think the idea will work very much like the border fence idea doe's, there's always a way around it.

so, why build the fence in the first place...?

attention Mrs. Moore...take his car keys and lock the gun and liquor cabinet......

Jerry, Jerry, Jerry. Now you've gone way too far.

It's one thing to take away his car keys and his gun, but to even mention locking the liquor cabinet is totally heartless.

I know it won't be lomg before 'ol umm, err, what's her name will take away my car keys, gun not a problem, don't own one,
but my fists are registered...but if she even thinks of locking my beer box, there will be a fight 'till death do us part.

I can't believe you are that mean.

moore_rb said:

Tyler Durden is the nom de plume of an entire staff of editoral contributor.

Hmm, sound ominous a whole host of annoynymous editors forcasting the state of the universe. Guess that makes sense since I'm sure there would be government hit men looking for them, given their incredible knowledge and understanding of the secret inner workings of nefarious governments. It's always nice to have special knowledge that the masses of igorente don't have. Hey maybe I'll sign up !! You could do it too Moore, you'd be really good at it and it might even pay !!

After some deep and prolonged thought and careful analysis, I have come to realize that that absence of Government Currency Control is the real reason that a cure for cancer has not been found. I dare you to prove that it not true.

This thread has clearly segued into the Rants and Raves category. Just look at that stuff GV is posting, unbelievable he has not been sent to camp for that.

=moore
To those of you who know what to expect over the next several years, take comfort in the fact that the 3 smartest and most successful people on this forum (Roberto, Jerry, Kenny) think you're all nuts.

Being a person of some intelligent who successfully woke up this morning, I've decided to given this statement some long and serious thought, but I need some more info Moore. What's success in your world, and how long have you been speaking to these people who like you, know what to expect "over the next several years"? Are there many of them, and can you speak to and see them all the time? Or do they, lets just say, come to you at certain times, like when your're under stress?

Kenny said:

What's success in your world

In economic terms, I consider success the art of offering society a good or service that enables you to earn (or produce) more than you consume, and being able to save the difference.

In private terms- I consider success to be waking up every morning and having something other than that first shot of whiskey (or that first cigarette) to look forward to; and going to sleep every night knowing that tomorow might be even better than today was.

In inter-personal terms, I consider success to be the feeling I've gotten from waking up next to the same woman for the past 20 years, and looking forward to waking up next to her for the next 40+ as well. I consider success to be every blue ribbon my kids proudly wave in my face, and every A on every Report card that they bring home for me to sign.

Ultimately, my success will be optimized when/if THEY wake up every morning and have something other than that first cigarette (or that first shot of whiskey) to look forward to at the start of THEIR day.

Kenny said:

and how long have you been speaking to these people who like you, know what to expect "over the next several years"? Are there many of them, and can you speak to and see them all the time? Or do they, lets just say, come to you at certain times, like when your're under stress?

I speak to them every time I cross the border and they ask me how much cash I've got, or what I do for a living to afford such a nice boat, or whether I'm carrying any guns or ammunition.

I speak to them every time I have to board a plane on business as they invade my personal space and brush the backs of their hands over my physical person and ask me to step in front of their radiation emitting device so they can see what's under my clothes.

They know what's coming, and so did Aldous Huxley, and so did George Orwell, and so did HL Mencken, and so did Harry Browne, and so do YOU. Yet, for some reason it is more entertaining to you to maintain this discussion in ad hominem terms.

moore_rb said:

I speak to them every time I cross the border and they ask me how much cash I've got, or what I do for a living to afford such a nice boat, or whether I'm carrying any guns or ammunition.

I speak to them every time I have to board a plane on business as they invade my personal space and brush the backs of their hands over my physical person and ask me to step in front of their radiation emitting device so they can see what's under my clothes.

They know what's coming.

Interesting. So your saying that everyone who might be in your interpretation invading your constitutional rights at the border etc, has personal knowledge of all the bad things you envision?

OK, so tell me how what appears to be your confidant's in this quote below, and about which my question was asked, became border agents etc?

"To those of you who know what to expect over the next several years, take comfort in the fact that the 3 smartest and most successful people on this forum (Roberto, Jerry, Kenny) think you're all nuts".

I am not even going to TRY and decode whatever it is you are asking me in the post above. I have an infinite number of things that would be more pleasurable- like picking the toe-jam out from under my nails...

adios.

Well you were trying to suggest our views should be discounted because at this time and place you have a bigger checking account balance. You are better than that...

moore_rb said:

I am not even going to TRY and decode whatever it is you are asking me in the post above. I have an infinite number of things that would be more pleasurable- like picking the toe-jam out from under my nails...

adios.

moore_rb said:

I am not even going to TRY and decode whatever it is you are asking me in the post above. I have an infinite number of things that would be more pleasurable- like picking the toe-jam out from under my nails...

adios.

Simple question Moore.
OK, so tell me how what appears to be your confidant's in this quote below, and about which my question was asked, became border agents etc?

"To those of you who know what to expect over the next several years, take comfort in the fact that the 3 smartest and most successful people on this forum (Roberto, Jerry, Kenny) think you're all nuts".

jerry said:

Well you were trying to suggest our views should be discounted because at this time and place you have a bigger checking account balance. You are better than that...

Please.

If I were inclined to such pettiness I would simply throw the trump card and declare that my dick is bigger than yours.

My actual point was that the 3 of you are always quick to take the other side of ANY point of view expressed by anyone you enjoy disagreeing with - regardless of the topic.

and under such circumstances, any viewpoint held that is contrary to the sentiments any (or all three) of you support is probably bound to end up being more accurate in hindsight, cognitive dissonance notwithstanding...


Kenny- I still don't know what the hell you are asking me...

"Those of you who know what to expect" in the context of THIS thread, include:

rplarry
jgatthesea
eduardo
arizzzona

now, are you asking when the 4 people above became border agents...? I don't know that they ARE border agents - in fact, I would dare to assume that NONE of them are border agents.


It seems you are trying to snare me in some linguistic trap, after your feeble attempt to portray me as having imaginary voices in my head went off the rails, so maybe you should just raise your hands in victory and declare "I win- The Moore has no effing clue what the hell I am talking about..." I would be perfectly cool with that.


Back to my toe-jam.

don't get me wrong,fee simple title on beach property (one per foreigner would make Mexico boom.The Mexican government isn't making any money on sales in this market and are trying to get a piece of sale.Without dealing with cash issue they just get skunked.

jerry said:

don't get me wrong,fee simple title on beach property (one per foreigner would make Mexico boom.The Mexican government isn't making any money on sales in this market and are trying to get a piece of sale.Without dealing with cash issue they just get skunked.

Governments never make money... governments only TAKE money. (Hey, I should copyright that phrase... it rhymes)

But, again I don't think this issue (or the corresponding 10k cap in the US) has anything to do with taxes... it has to do with the point I made earlier regarding the point of view that:

"The only way we can crack down on the criminals is to treat and scrutinize EVERYONE as if they were a potential criminal..." I find that personally offensive. Forgive me for my insane over-sensitivity.

"Good evening sir, where are you headed? how long will you be gone? how much cash are you leaving the country with? any guns, weapons, or ammo in the vehicle? were you snorting coke off a hooker's tits in Scottsdale last night? I see you have a boat- have you ever captained a submarine full of Colombian blow into a US port of call? Do you go by any latino aliases that would lead us to believe that you may be a drug empire king-pin...?

where are the questions going to stop..? "Sir, before we can allow you to go fishing, we need to hook you up to this polygraph and ask you a couple questions about whether you have ever taken more than the legal limit in any one species..."


and the worst of all "Please protect your red meat at all costs - our counterparts on the other side of the line have a hankering for some asada..."