Mark..Here is an article from the Green Valley paper about a recent trip these good folks took.
Quail Creek is a growing community a little east of GV. Their golfing guys are a bunch of Sand Baggers, but these
folks are great.
Early on Feb. 10, 17 members of a Quail Creek neighborhood Bible study group departed in a three-car caravan bound for Puerto Peñasco (Rocky Point, Mexico) on a mini-mission trip arranged by Skip and Julie Pence. The four-hour drive was full of spectacular scenery and joyful fellowship, and included a short picnic lunch stop at Organ Pipe National Monument. The group arrived at Esperanza por los Niños (Hope for the Children), a Christian home for children who had been removed from their parental home for various reasons. The facility is home to about 40 children, ages 5 to 18, and is run by two couples who live on site with their own children. A tour of the facility was enjoyed, and their mission and needs were explained. As the children arrived from school in town, the group helped to serve a hearty lunch. Afterward, the children enthusiastically enjoyed crafts provided by the Quail Creek visitors. The kids were also awed by a flannel board story of David and Goliath, and creatively iced Valentine cookies. Three lovely ocean-front condos in the Sandy Beach area of Puerto Peñasco, provided by the Pences, were home to the group for the weekend. After check-in, dinner was enjoyed at The Med, a restaurant in Las Palmas area. Saturday found the travelers shopping at Bodega Aurrera, the local version of Wal-Mart, for items to provide lunch for 300 persons at two local food bank locations. Having worked up an appetite, the group enjoyed a delicious Mexican lunch at Pollo Lucas, having grilled chicken with side dishes served under a thatched-roof, open-air dining room. Meat and cheese sandwiches were assembled, oranges arranged and Cheetos were divided into small bags at the central Food Bank location and then delivered to the two mission sites. Local residents gathered at the two outdoor neighborhood locations, summoned by worship music playing and bells ringing. Young and old alike, along with a cadre of dogs, arrived on foot. After a worship service, complete with music and sermon, the meals were distributed and received with gratitude and enthusiasm. Dinner that evening was at La Curva, complete with delicious Mexican favorites and strolling Mariachi musicians. On Sunday, the group worshiped at Family of God Church with a standing room-only crowd composed of Americans, Canadians and Mexicans. The service was led by an American minister from Texas. Sunday afternoon was free time for all and included beach walks, spa soaks and naps. That evening, the Malicon (central shopping district) was the venue for shopping, local music and sunset viewing. The weekend was capped off with a lovely dinner at Lolita’s. The group arrived home mid-day on Monday, blessed by being able to do Christ’s work among those so much in need and very grateful for what we have been blessed with in our own lives.
Oh Yeah Jerry.. I saw those people using a sling to toss Iced Valentine Cookies and sandwiches at the the children and the hungy... Oh my GOD it was so brutal... there was ketchup every where... even though I think you're a heartless SOB if you came to my door and told me you were hungry I would feed you...
And Jerry just what is your connection to Rocky Point..? don't you have a place in Santo Tomas (Saint Thomas)... I seem to recall your last BS comment about all us Christians and our crosses, and I reminded you that the majority of Mexicans are Christians... why do you even bother coming to Mexico, GOD forbid aren't you affraid that these Christians, might hit you with an Iced Valentine Cookie or a sandwich from a sling..?
Oh by the way last week I gave $300 and LadyJeeper contributed $50 to Esperanza Para Los Ninos... also since then I have received $100 from AZ ROB and another $100 from GV Jack that I will be delivering to my friend Jose Manuel Sanchez the director at Esperanza Para Los Ninos... I think I'm going to look for a sling so I can toss the cash at Jose Manuel...
easy My Brother...i was complementing the people from GV posting and drinking are always a mistake.......
QUOTE=Seadweller;54576]Oh Yeah Jerry.. I saw those people using a sling to toss Iced Valentine Cookies and sandwiches at the the children and the hungy... Oh my GOD it was so brutal... there was ketchup every where... even though I think you're a heartless SOB if you came to my door and told me you were hungry I would feed you...
And Jerry just what is your connection to Rocky Point..? don't you have a place in Santo Tomas (Saint Thomas)... I seem to recall your last BS comment about all us Christians and our crosses, and I reminded you that the majority of Mexicans are Christians... why do you even bother coming to Mexico, GOD forbid aren't you affraid that these Christians, might hit you with an Iced Valentine Cookie or a sandwich from a sling..?[/QUOTE]
easy My Brother...i was complementing the people from GV posting and drinking are always a mistake.......
QUOTE=Seadweller;54576]Oh Yeah Jerry.. I saw those people using a sling to toss Iced Valentine Cookies and sandwiches at the the children and the hungy... Oh my GOD it was so brutal... there was ketchup every where... even though I think you're a heartless SOB if you came to my door and told me you were hungry I would feed you...
And Jerry just what is your connection to Rocky Point..? don't you have a place in Santo Tomas (Saint Thomas)... I seem to recall your last BS comment about all us Christians and our crosses, and I reminded you that the majority of Mexicans are Christians... why do you even bother coming to Mexico, GOD forbid aren't you affraid that these Christians, might hit you with an Iced Valentine Cookie or a sandwich from a sling..?
[/QUOTE]
Caught me off guard there Mark; maybe you didn't read the part where they read the story of David and Goliath to the kids and had "creatively iced Valentine cookies"?
EDIT..I guess you did, but I'll be damned if I can figure out what the hell you were reading into this compliment, or why.
Valentine cookies and the best Kick-Ass story in the bible.....nice
Kenny... it's kind of like the boy who cried wolf... I have seen several posts by Jerry bashing Christianity and this post just came across as more of his sarcasm to me...
Jerry... if you meant it as a compliment I apologise for taking it the wrong way... and I take back calling you heartless...
hey Mark Luis of Saric and the great Seri people had a different view about the Spanish and their imaginary friend ;at this place at this time I was just saying it was a cool thing the the people from Southern Arizona did on that day for those kids...it sounded like fun for everyone. Not to tell you what to read bro but you might be interested in the history of the mexican revolution and the Catholic Church. Also The Pope will be hearing about this: MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - Weak law enforcement and compliant Church authorities make Mexico a haven for U.S. pedophile priests fleeing justice, a victims' group said on Wednesday.
The Survivors' Network of those Abused by Priests, or SNAP, which helped bring a lawsuit this week against two of North America's top cardinals, said it knows of 46 mostly U.S. priests hiding out south of the border.
"Mexico has really become a secure place because here judicial authorities don't track them down and nothing happens," said group spokesman Eric Barragan. (snip)
Barragan said Mexican pedophile priests, to a lesser degree, often flee to the United States. (snip/...)
Kenny... it's kind of like the boy who cried wolf... I have seen several posts by Jerry bashing Christianity and this post just came across as more of his sarcasm to me...
Jerry... if you meant it as a compliment I apologise for taking it the wrong way... and I take back calling you heartless...
To late Mark; remember that old saying about letting sleeping dogs lie? LOL Oh no! Did I just call Jerry a old dog?
Many commie pinko ratfinks are heartless, but i don't think it applies to Jerry. Jerry's posts do tend to the abstract and sometimes abstruse and I think maybe poor Sea is maybe still suffering dolor. Maybe it was another neferious plot of the notorious GV to creat dissension, after all he started the thread.
The weather has been great. Had a large group down from Oregon just arrive for Spring Break and i guess AZ schools are winding down. Most of the activity seemed to have been in the Malecon this year. Seems to be improving, albeit slowly.
Hey Roberto, you're in the office early today. Actually, I wish I could say I had a neferious plot, but alas, I'm not that clever.
I did make this post for a number of reasons. First, I’d like to address a couple of subjects brought up. The subject of the priests and their so called flight from the US and/or Mexico is interesting. Pedophilia is a terrible and gross action. I know as a result of an elementary school incident where the head of the school decided I was too good and too weak to resist. I ran not really understanding what or why he tried what he did. I told my parents and all hell broke loose. The man was fired and I was brought to Arizona for three months and was home schooled by my mother. He died in an auto crash a couple years later. It is popular for some to isolate the priests as the lone culprits in this situation, however, as we are learning, it happens all too terribly often. The priests and anyone who does such an act can run but they cannot hide. They may have freedom from the law, but in the end game they will pay a dear price.
Now dear Roberto, the reason I posted this. I am a huge believer in faith based programs to help the needy. This article struck a nerve because it is about an area we all love. It turns out I do have acquaintance with a couple of the people involved. What is my attachment to the faith based aspect? I have a twenty-two year old grandson who is a heroin addict. He was hopelessly hooked and we feared for his life. His family had tried everything and asked us to help. They have little money and can’t afford a Betty Ford type program. We heard of Teen Challenge, here in Tucson and applied to see if they could help him. They said, if you get him out here we’ll try to help. That was two years ago last January 22nd. Today Kris has graduated from the program, gone through the internship and is now a valuable member of the staff, helping others, the way he was helped. This is a very strict faith based program and has a high success rate. I support it at every chance. By the way anyone of any age can enroll. I have seen a number of fifty-something’s there.
Last week, we attended a fund raising banquet in Sierra Vista sponsored by some local churches and individuals. The young people from the Tucson center and the young ladies from the Casa Grande Home of Hope all were there and were the choir. They were clean, bright eyed and had great energy. I marvel at the courage and guts these folks have in their pursuit of sobriety. By the way, the banquet raised about $50,000 in cash and pledges. I understand that “faith based” is a turn off for some. You know what, that’s alright and is what makes this a great country. I often say I will never try to push my religion or my political thinking on others. I do reserve the right to explain what and why I feel the way I do. I just hope that we all appreciate what these folks did. Most had never been to Rocky Point and had no bond. I’m sure many will return.
Sorry for the length of this piece, but now I feel better.
Having had each of the categories of behavioral problems in treatment at one time in my clinical career we used whatever worked and whatever was available. Pedophiles (even an ex-priest !), rapists, victims of sex abuse, and multiple diagnosis substance abusers I've seen them all. I came to think that pedophiles and rapists should not be recognized as a diagnostic category in the DSM. Falls more in like with assault, murder, criminal behavior and probably should be treated that way. Substance abusers can change when there is motivation, which is often lacking and difficult to provide.
I like heroin too and know how seductive it can be. Fortunately I only popped and not mainlined and did not get addicted, that being in the early 60's. Treatment programs, of any type, are hard to find, or were 8 years ago when I got out of the profession. I found working with Native deteriorated alcoholics almost impossible.
I salute you, Gramps GV and your grandson as well. But that does not mean I will not continue to carefully monitor your activities when you are visiting !!
Roberto Said, "I salute you, Gramps GV and your grandson as well. But that does not mean I will not continue to carefully monitor your activities when you are visiting !!"
I would expect and could only hope for nothing less. Thank you. See you in late April.
I had 12 years of sobriety when I relapsed in 95/96 and it wasn't pretty, but It was sure was a wild ride.:mrgreen:
I'd already for the most part hung up my tool belt, and I'd spent most of a year working with men that because of the new laws were released from AZ's cruel and medieval state mental hospital. "Released" after experiencing 30 or more years of abuse and torture for some. These guy's were so messed up that they couldn't put them in group homes, they they were put in what was called a intermediate care facility. My job was to take these guy's out into the general population on a one on one basis 5 day's a week without anyone getting hurt, or worse. Now these guy's were crazy, and you didn't need a degree to make that assesment. You could tell at a glance, and a lot of "good" people didn't like to see them out in
"their" world. I was good with those guy's, a natural. It must have been because I'm more than a little crazy myself.
Anyway I'd stopped working with those guy's and I'd put the tool belt back on for $$ and was doing millwright work when I started drinking again. I relapsed, and after loosing it all and setting the desert on fire on my way out of Phoenix to Albuquerque where I thought I had work that wasn't there: neither was my friend for that matter.. So my dog and I were living the good life in my Suburban (rubber tramp) living permanently on vacation, and I was as crazy as the men I'd helped previously. My dog Max was a 15 years old Wolfound mix, and he died on January 17 of 97 at 16. So then it was just me, myself, and that crazy guy, I.
Some of us don't die, we just continue to suffer, and being one tough S.O.B. that was me. Since I kept waking up, I decided I needed to do something. I'd met Bill who worked for H.C.H. and he got me into a program that they no longer have called Casa Los Arbollas, and it might well have saved my life...abqhch.org
Anyway after completing my program at HCH I found out that the brothers of the good Shepard had a place they called a intermediate care facility, the Manor, and it housed Vietnam Vets with head injuries, stroke victims, old folks with alzheimers, dementia, stroke victims, or just old. There were a few my age with schizophrenia etc, and some that were so crazy only God knew what was wrong with them, and that's a maybe. A real Potpourri of folks at the "Manor"... There were also old and not so old priest's that were there because they needed assistance, and a couple were pedophiles. Though they had mental health problems, if they hadn't of been priest's there is no question they would have been in Jail... It sounded like a great place to work to me, and I spent 4 years working for the brothers there and loved it, and hell no, I'm not Catholic...The Little Brothers of the Good Shepherd Oh, and of couse I took some of them fishing, and let them pee on trees and stuff.:D
I also did volunteer work at St Martins Hospitality center. They called me the condom man because along with getting demographics of the homeless population in Albuquerque, I was handing out condoms and giving out literature on STD. I also gave them referrals to the various clinics in town where they could go for health care, and get tested for STD.St. Martin's Hospitality Center: Home
I only gave what I had; and you can only keep what you have, if you give it away.
Tree hugging bleeding heart liberals like me can still kick some :eek:; so don't forget to duck. :ham:
One of the pedophile priest's was distraught because of what he had done, so he was always having one of the other priest's hear his confession, and everyday. So he wouldn't go to hell I guess. Anyway one day the old monsignor who had more than his share of problems himself, Alzheimer's and a little dementia (Kenny, there's a dog in the tree! Don't worry Monsignor, he was chasing a cat, and forgot he couldn't climb) decided he wasn't going to listen to his crap anymore, and wouldn't take his confession any longer. So what did he do? In his full priest garb he snuck out of the manor and threw himself in front of a truck full of watermelons and was killed.. The truck was driven by a couple of young Mexican nationals who just happen to be devout cathlics. I couldn't make that up.
Daily Kos: Teen Challenge: Coercive groups disguised as rehab I'm glad it worked for your Grandson but watch them..
On a side note I knew a Jack Mormon kid that went because it was that or jail and he was told Mormonism was the devils religion...they also have a TeenChallenge Bible and take away your King James Bible ....but hey a boot camp is what some people need....
Daily Kos: Teen Challenge: Coercive groups disguised as rehab I'm glad it worked for your Grandson but watch them..
On a side note I knew a Jack Mormon kid that went because it was that or jail and he was told Mormonism was the devils religion...they also have a TeenChallenge Bible and take away your King James Bible ....but hey a boot camp is what some people need....
Jerry, thanks for the info from the Daily Kos. I particularly liked the un-named sources used. Well, here is my name, Jack Hecker and here's my experience with Teen Challenge.
Teen Challenge is a national program. I don't know how all of them are run, but I can vouch for the Tucson, New River branches. I also have experience with the Cincinnatti one.
First the Cincinnatti branch. That is run by a George Martin and my experience is that it appears to be a rehab joint for rich kids from the Proctor & Gamble ilk. One of our family went there
for alchohol rehab and was told he could go on an overnight pass after two weeks and the day he was told by his wife she was taking the kid and leaving. You can guess what happened. By the way he's now
out here and doing quite well in the second month of induction. When asked how he could do that, Mr. Martin replied that he was not running a rehab center he was trying to develop followers.
As far as the Tucson branch is concerned, I cannot vouch for the Mormonism comment, but I will look into it. Kris has used the Bible I gave him from day one. Yes they do have their own Bible,
but Kris was always allowed to use his. Is it like a boot camp? Yes it is, you bet. And Jerry, you are absolutely right, some people do need a boot camp. I did sixteen weeks for the good old USA
and look how well I turned out. :D It wasn't fun, but to this day, it was one of the best things that ever happened to me. What does one learn in boot camp, disciipline. What does it take to break addiction?
Discipline. It works for many, not all. I have seen kids from there rather go to jail than go through the program. I have also seen some with multiple felonies come out the other side and become productive
citizens.
Wouldn't it be great if there were a majic wand you could wave and cure everyone. There isn't, but this has worked for many.
As far as the Daily Kos, are you kidding me? I could have sworn you would have used the Glenn Beck Journal!!!! :jerry2:
For the record I have no felonies, and I never sought "rehab" to avoid any court action. To be able to work with the type of individuals I've worked with you have to be finger printed, and then they are ran through the national data bank to make sure you have not only no felonies, but charges that involve violence of any kind.
DISCLAIMER.. That in no way means I'm not a dangerous man.:veg:
Jack ,Teen Challenge is A Assembly of God outfit...here is the Assemblies view of Mormonism Is Mormonism Christian?
Man oh man, I hate it when you are right Jerry. Teen Challenge is affiliated with the Assembly of God and that article certainly provides a thesis of "Gotcha" Theology.
This is nothing new. There has been an "I'm more Christian than you" for ages. I cannot condone the practice. I believe that live and let live should be the credo.
But back to Teen Challenge. While looking around yesterday I stumbled accross an article written by a graduate of Teen Challenge. The writer has been sober for
seven years, yet knocked the program in many ways. One was the assertion by the program that they had an 85% success rate. I agre that number has to be scewed
someway. The writer suggested it should be 5% or less. I think that's off base also. There is one thing I do know. It works for some and doesn't for others. The reason
is motivation. The writer also was very pro the Twelve Step Program. I say, great, again whatever works. I did find it interesting that the writer had been sober for seven years
and it started at Teen Challenge.
Years ago, in the '60's in another life, I was Quality Control manager for an aerospace machine shop. A gentleman, Phillip Crosby, at Martin Marrietta in Orlando, Florida started a program that
became famous. It was called "Zero Defects". I had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Crosby and discussing it with him. When asked if zero defects was obtainable, his response was interesting.
He said, "Jack it is most likely that complete zero defects is unobtainable. That however is the goal. The progress we make as we approach the goal is the reward." I think that's the apporoach
we should take when trying to determine the best treatment for addiction. Be it Betty Ford, Twelve Step, Teen Challenge, whatever, if it works and helps one soul, that's what makes it all
wothwhile. If it helps many souls that's a greater reward. The evil is the addiction, not the people who sincerely attempt to defeat it.
The part where I ramble begins here............I used to work for a bookie at Tahoe in the 70's after I became sick of being broke....He basically laid off bets (pre internet days)for bookies living off degenerate gamblers from around the country.The only way some guys lost the craving to gamble was to lose everything...a couple times...
.I know a guy that works in Peru for a mining operation.....he has been a high functioning employee for 20 years keeping a processing operation running while having a world classcoke habit (he uses an ounce of Bolivian Flake a week!) he makes 5k a week and spends 500 of that on blow. Maybe if drugs were just cheep we would have less problems
I've been around recovery programs since the late 60's when my dad went to the first federally funded programs for drugs and alcohol at Camarillo State Mental Hospital in Cali. At that time Roberto, Gestalt type therapy was thought to be the way to go. After seeing failure after failure in friends who went to programs with the end results being relaps and death, and as in my my dad's case, death; I didn't think any kind of program worked at all until 83 when I got sober the first time with a 12 step program... I was very closely involved with some of the best programs in N.M. when I was over there in the late 90's and early 2000's and I was encouraged to get my LSAA&LADAC certificates.New Mexico - LSAA & LADAC Training | Distance Learning and go to work for one of the agencies over there, but I had other work to do.
The most common number used in the REAL recovery business is 1 out of 10, with the success rate going down from there the older the client was, along with other factors. My hands on experience has shown me that's probably a very close number. Anyone who says their program has a 85% success rate is a lier, PERIOD!!
According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual the use of a drug is not of as diagnostic importance as the effects on the person's functioning.
Use alone will not result in a diagnosis. The legal business is different of course.
jerry said:
The part where I ramble begins here............I used to work for a bookie at Tahoe in the 70's after I became sick of being broke....He basically laid off bets (pre internet days)for bookies living off degenerate gamblers from around the country.The only way some guys lost the craving to gamble was to lose everything...a couple times...
.I know a guy that works in Peru for a mining operation.....he has been a high functioning employee for 20 years keeping a processing operation running while having a world classcoke habit (he uses an ounce of Bolivian Flake a week!) he makes 5k a week and spends 500 of that on blow. Maybe if drugs were just cheep we would have less problems
My heroin recovery story...1970 at Purdue university deep in the heart of America we used to volunteer for all medical/scientific tests that paid money.A ad in the underground newspaper brought us to a industrial lab where our heavy Heroin habits would be taken off our backs by taking an IV of Scopamine (called "The twilight Sleep" by our ex-junkie recruiter.)if we lasted for 2 weeks we would get a grand eachNone of us except the guy just back from his low draft number induced free trip to SouthEast Asia had ever really chased the dragon but we talked a good game thanks to William Burroughs and were accepted.It was my best drug experience ever. A two leek long hallucination inducing downer dream fest while they had us listen to chanting and subliminal messages.We all walked out heroin free with a grand each in our pockets The project closed up after some bad press .
My heroin recovery story...1970 at Purdue university deep in the heart of America we used to volunteer for all medical/scientific tests that paid money.A ad in the underground newspaper brought us to a industrial lab where our heavy Heroin habits would be taken off our backs by taking an IV of Scopamine (called "The twilight Sleep" by our ex-junkie recruiter.)if we lasted for 2 weeks we would get a grand eachNone of us except the guy just back from his low draft number induced free trip to SouthEast Asia had ever really chased the dragon but we talked a good game thanks to William Burroughs and were accepted.It was my best drug experience ever. A two leek long hallucination inducing downer dream fest while they had us listen to chanting and subliminal messages.We all walked out heroin free with a grand each in our pockets The project closed up after some bad press .
I'll take some of that for my next colonoscopy. :-D
Looks like you got off easy..
Scopolamine has been used in the past to treat addiction to drugs such as heroin and cocaine. The patient was given frequent doses of scopolamine until they were delirious. This treatment was maintained for 2 to 3 days after which they were treated with pilocarpine. After recovering from this they were said to have lost the acute craving to the drug to which they were addicted.
...
Nevertheless, approximately one in five emergency room admissions for poisoning in Bogotá have been attributed to scopolamine. In June 2008, more than 20 people were hospitalized with psychosis in Norway after ingesting counterfeit Rohypnol tablets containing scopolamine.
There have also been reports of tourists being robbed after having scopolamine slipped into their food or drink. Recently, these incidents have been reported in Thailand.
... The effects of scopolamine were studied by criminologists in the early 20th century In 2009, it was proven that Czechoslovakcommunistsecret police used scopolamine at least three times to obtain confessions from alleged anti-state conspirators.
Sheesh Kenny..Lighten up...I'm not the one who took this thread where it's gone from GV Jacks OP.....
You usually refrain from name calling on here....
I usually do, but I guess I just got tired of how you "usually" cover up mean spirited remarks with little guy's laying down laughing. Maybe that's all that it needed; and hey, you always want to stir things up, right?:grin:
Wow....You know what? When I started this thread with an article on charity from The Green Valley News, I never dreamed we would end up with
an issue of True Confessions. I must say I'm glad we did. Now it's my turn.
My father was a bottle of anything he could get a day kinda guy. He woke up in the hospital and his doctor, who was one of his best friends was
standing there. He said, "Art, I want to shake your hand and say goodbye." My dad said, "Are you going somewhere?" He said, "No, but you are.
Your pancreas is trying to shut down and your next drink could well be your last." He quit that day and lived for many years thereafter.
I made an attempt in the late 70's to uphold the hereditary factor in alchoholism but I was a miserable failure. Instead of going into some kind of euphoria
of joy, or whatever it's supposed to do for you, I either fell asleep or got sick. Doomed, I have spent the rest of my life just having a drink or two before
and with dinner. Beer, glass of wine that's about it with the exception of visits to Rocky Point where one of Max's great Bloody Mary's is a must with breakfast.
In a nutshell, I'm really pretty boring.
I would like to thank you all for the information you have provided in this thread. It seems we all have our cross to bear. I for one have learned a great deal here.
I think I have lived so far from these things that I have complete and total naivitee regarding them. My only experience with drugs has come from Kris' situation and
that was from afar, with him in Ohio and me out here. Again thanks for sharing, I think it takes guts to do that.
