Out of the top 20 markets, only Phoenix and Miami have experienced real estate appreciation in the latest government report. Of course, as Phoenix goes so does Rocky Point. I have been looking to buy a second home for quite some time and think now may be the time to actually do it. I have found a condo in Las Palomas Phase 1 that seems to be a great deal and looks perfect for my family and I. The condos are beautiful there and resort has the best amenities in Rocky Point. Phase 1 does not rent nearly as well as Phase II so prices are much cheaper, however this suits my needs as I have no plans to rent and the pools and common areas are somewhat quieter.
However, I have done some homework and spoken to a number of folk including a couple of current owners and a real estate agent. They have all warned me that Las Palomas is not friendly to owners that do not rent. One mentioned that there are plans to restrict and charge all guests, even owners who do not rent, $50 per night to stay there.
So I am looking for advice. Do I need to be concerned about Las Palomas and can a resort actually charge owners for guests in their own condos? If so, which resorts should I be looking at to purchase?
There has been a lot of back and forth about Las Palomas. Just type in the name to the search box above and you'll get a lot of stuff, the good the bad and the ugly. Good luck with your search and yes you should ask a lot of questions before you subject yourself to an HOA. It seems to me that the HOA's and management companies tend to get out of control. No idea how that can happen other than absentee members not voting.
I have been coming to Rocky Point since the age of 15 (I am now 40), I just recently moved here full-time. As much as I love it here, please don’t be overly optimistic about the recovery of either the economy or the real estate market.
There is an extraordinary surplus of luxury housing in a very small city that has no jobs for a North-American (gringo) resident to make even a modest living. The real estate market here does not mirror Phoenix despite what any real estate agent may tell you. Rocky Point has only vacation property, and as such, finding a bank to mortgage any property here will be an uphill battle. The market in Rocky Point will not recover until at least 3-5 years after the economy in the surrounding states (California, Arizona, New Mexico, etc.) recovers and until the surplus of housing is bought up (at rock bottom prices) by those that have cash and can wait the required time to see a return on their investment.
Assuming you intend to pay all cash, you are doing the appropriate research to ensure that you are making a wise purchase. I recently went through the same process and my wife and I quickly eliminated Las Palomas as an option for ownership. The property is beautiful but the HOA is in constant turmoil. The monthly dues are incredibly high and will only go up. We placed an ad here on Rocky Point Talk for housing and the response was overwhelming. The fact is that an untold number of people are looking to get out at any cost. There are some decent options to be had and we would be happy to pass along our research.
I don’t want to be overly negative and I am sure that my commentary will upset a number of people who are still living in 2006 and feel the market will recover at any moment. If you love the area and plan to purchase here because of the wonderful times you can and will experience with your family and friends, Rocky Point is a great investment. If you are seeking a financial investment, I would be prepared to spend at least 10+ years before you see any return on said investment.
Please feel free to send a private message and I will gladly give pass along all of the information I have accumulated in my search for a property.
You should look info buying a house at Las Conchas. I have several neighbors desparate to sell. As a result we are see under 300k for nice houses second row from the beach.
We own a condo at Las Palomas Phase 2. We have never rented and do not plan to. It is true there has been alot of turmoil with the former Management
group. A new Management company has recently taken over and things seem to be getting better, but in fairness it is to early to tell. I would look for a
deal in phase 2 over phase 1. We have been told that our utilities are less than phase 1 due to better a/c, appliances etc. Also the HOA dues are slightly
lower than phase 1.
As far as not being friendly to non renters, we have never experienced that. I would look for the best deal that you can get, the market will eventually come
back and you will make a good profit and in the mean time you will have a great place to relax and enjoy. Just my two cents for what it is worth.
I wouldn't be too concerned about prices falling further either... Places in Las Palomas are selling for as little as 70k for 1 bedroom. Let's say prices TANK 20% more, which is highly unlikely since they have pretty much been bouncing around the bottom for over year. Then your place is worth 56k. Not nearly the $ loss if you had bought really high.
I owned at Las Palomas a few years ago. We're I to do it again, and was dead set on a condo, I would go with the Sonoran properties. Much less problems with the management. Also recently heard that the golf course at Las Paloma's was just hanging on with a thread. Check out the Sonoran Sky next door. Just my take not only from my experience, but also that of others. I like the idea of just renting when I want to, perhaps I feel that way as a result of my personal experience. Rocky Point is a beautiful little town but owning there is a little different.
One mentioned that there are plans to restrict and charge all guests, even owners who do not rent, $50 per night to stay there.
So I am looking for advice. Do I need to be concerned about Las Palomas and can a resort actually charge owners for guests in their own condos? If so, which resorts should I be looking at to purchase?
I am not sure why anyone would buy into any development that charged owners to have guests in their own condos. I have not heard that this is planned to happen at Las Palomas but the HOA was just turned over to the owners and there are many rental investors at LP, so who knows. It may be worth waiting a bit to see how the new HOA settles down before you purchase.
rumors always swirl as to what will happen, what has happened and what is happening (of which 90% are false). follow up with the new management company and they are in the best position to answer your questions.
I owned there. It is a nightmare. Lots of money problems. Why isn't phase 3 done and where is that money? I also have owned at Spa. All the Sonoran projects are completed. Only buy were everything is done and look at the condition of the paint, stairwells, grounds, are pools heated etc
Last I heard real estate values were still expected to drop another 10% in RP. What do you base your rising value comment on?[/QUOTE said:
As we all already know, no one really knows what will happen in the short run. Unfortunatley the local MLS data are incomplete and hence inaccurate. I will say that there has been more 'activity' than last year. The lookers are coming around and interest in Penasco has not gone away. There are still many people interested in owning, just a shortage of cash. If financing was available things would be much better and owners are much more willing to finance their sale to effectuate a sale.
While in reality prices may not approach those of 5 years ago in my lifetime, they will increase over the long run. Penasco has a lot to offer several large population centers in the US. You might say the condo market is 'glutted' particularly if you consider the unfinished units and stalled developments. There are lots of good deals on homes in the Mirador and Las Conchas with nothing new being built for some time so I'm guessing for a firming up of the home market before the condo market firms.
All in all, hopefully the raging fire will not reoccur and people will keep their heads about them and not get into something unrealistic. Again I say I would not buy into any unfinished home or condo on the promise of completion. You might get a Bank Trust in an unfinished condo development but have continuing problems if the developer has financial problems.
And don't forget the best buy in all of Penasco, Hacienda Nuevo Leon, now at $225,000 !!! Ha, ha, ha. Buy it today and get a free Mexican Street dog to go with !!
One of the biggest problems during the real estate run-up was that condos were sold to investors. Many purchasors bought units with the expectation that they could fully cover their monthly costs through rentals. The problem is Rocky Point is not a 12 month town which is why hotels do not work here. They have always needed owners who love the beach, view this as their second home, not as an income producing asset. If they make a little money renting to offset their expenses that is great, but they expect to carry the majority of cost themselves.
Las Palomas probably feels this worse, as many condos were sold to owners with expectations of big rental returns. Some owners have 3,4, or 5 condos and purchased at prices at the height of the boom.
I guess the good news is that the cost of Rocky Point real estate is getting to a point that there is little risk in purchasing today. Hopefully this will encourage owners to come back because this is a great place to own their dream beach home without relying on rental income to make their payments. I believe once the town and resorts start focusing again on the second home owner market who want affordable beach front property, the sooner the true recovery will start, and Las Palomas is the nicest resort in town.
... Did you see the Full page ad, the city of PP has for owners of Real Estate on the RPTimes? TAXES are DUE NOW! Pay up since this is what the city needs to continue to fund its planed infra.
CUR George, that is the problem with RP, any resort needs 80-20 Hotels vs Condos.... RP is 20-80 and the Condos are really Hotels disguised as Condo's so they can be financed by the many owners. Conos' are not Real Estate.
Well this town will never support 80-20 Hotels vs Condos, it is too seasonable. You are right, the existing Condos are disguised as Hotels with the owners subsidizing the slow off seasons. That is why I believe it is critical for the resorts to attract more non-renting owners. At Las Palomas, I believe the mix of renting vs non-renting owners is approx 50/50. Say with lower prices and better positioning, the mix would move to 70/30 with only 30% of the owners actively renting. Wouldn't this make for a healthier economy in RP? There would be less competition for the rental customer for the 30% and 70% would have a great second home at a low price.
I do not agree that Condos are not real estate. They are a great alternative for remote second homes where you have a hard time to manage security, maintenance, etc.
I think the math works against us in a different way too. In 2000 their were 5 million people in Arizona and the small town of Rockypoint was sort of booming.Now we have 6.5 million people but maybe only 2.5 million will go to Mexico. Add to that the new excess capacity in Pigeon Coop world and the problem seems unsolvable. I think we need a tidal wave.We do pretty well on renting our places in Santo Tomas because there is no competition and most of the owners are of the mind that they only rent to friends (yes we can!) Most of the the rentals go through the development website.They take about 40% but in the long run it's worth it not having to deal with the renters.
I think the math works against us in a different way too. In 2000 their were 5 million people in Arizona and the small town of Rockypoint was sort of booming.Now we have 6.5 million people but maybe only 2.5 million will go to Mexico. Add to that the new excess capacity in Pigeon Coop world and the problem seems unsolvable. I think we need a tidal wave.We do pretty well on renting our places in Santo Tomas because there is no competition and most of the owners are of the mind that they only rent to friends (yes we can!) Most of the the rentals go through the development website.They take about 40% but in the long run it's worth it not having to deal with the renters.
Many of the rental owners in RP were sold on the idea that the Management company could generate enough rentals to offset their monthly carrying costs. Early on, specifically at Las Palomas, this was true as their were few units and excess demand. Now with over 400 units in the rental pool, only those owners that actively and aggressively market their condos come close to meeting their monthly expenses. The problem is that most owners neither have the time nor fortitude to put all that energy into finding renters. So a few owners are relatively solvent and the majority are taking it on the chin. And if the majority did wakeup and market their own condos, the current overall market would not support everyone.
Rocky Point needs a model more like Santo Tomas, where the majority use their condos for themselves and friends while a minority aggresively rent. This would bring the Rocky Point inventory in line with a healthy 80/20 hotel/condo distribution that Wahoo suggests. With prices so low now, and 2.5 million potential customers in AZ, don't you think there is an untapped market for Rocky Point's inventory?
I think a hundred bucks a night for a couple ..140 for 2 couples is the line above which you run into problems renting your place out..,,,hey if you look at it as pocket money you will have fun with it...paying the bills is another matter
curiousgeorge said:
Many of the rental owners in RP were sold on the idea that the Management company could generate enough rentals to offset their monthly carrying costs. Early on, specifically at Las Palomas, this was true as their were few units and excess demand. Now with over 400 units in the rental pool, only those owners that actively and aggressively market their condos come close to meeting their monthly expenses. The problem is that most owners neither have the time nor fortitude to put all that energy into finding renters. So a few owners are relatively solvent and the majority are taking it on the chin. And if the majority did wakeup and market their own condos, the current overall market would not support everyone.
Rocky Point needs a model more like Santo Tomas, where the majority use their condos for themselves and friends while a minority aggresively rent. This would bring the Rocky Point inventory in line with a healthy 80/20 hotel/condo distribution that Wahoo suggests. With prices so low now, and 2.5 million potential customers in AZ, don't you think there is an untapped market for Rocky Point's inventory?
I think a hundred bucks a night for a couple ..140 for 2 couples is the line above which you run into problems renting your place out..,,,hey if you look at it as pocket money you will have fun with it...paying the bills is another matter
That is about right for example at Las Palomas. A guest can get an ocean view room starting at-
1 bedroom $115 weekday/$145 weekend (can sleep 4)
2 bedroom $155 weekday/$190 weekend (can sleep 6)
3 bedroom $210 weekday/$240 weekend (can sleep 8)
Based on these numbers, the affordability per couple is less than $100 per night.
We just need to increase the # of fish in the pond. Hopefully the fear of Mexico dies down and with the improved future outlook (port, convention center, retail, roads and more people getting a passport), we should see an increase in visitors.
Getting back to the original question. LP would be at the bottom of my list of condos to consider. All of the Sonoran properties are completed and are beautiful. That is the only place I will rent. But the best piece of advice anyone can give you is if you do buy a condo, make sure it is completed and the entire resort is completed. I agree with whoever said the best deal is to just rent a few times a year and hang on to your money.
Getting back to the original question. LP would be at the bottom of my list of condos to consider. All of the Sonoran properties are completed and are beautiful. That is the only place I will rent. But the best piece of advice anyone can give you is if you do buy a condo, make sure it is completed and the entire resort is completed. I agree with whoever said the best deal is to just rent a few times a year and hang on to your money.
I don't think Tripadvisor or AAA feel the same way as you do when it comes to rating the stay at Las Palomas compared to the properties you mentioned.
I don't think Tripadvisor or AAA feel the same way as you do when it comes to rating the stay at Las Palomas compared to the properties you mentioned.
I use Tripadvisor and I consider their ratings for some things, but when it comes to value for my money I don't agree with them about Rocky Point. It's been about a year, so I may be misinformed, but doesn't Las Palmoas have rules about how much an owner can charge family and friends to use their condo? I can get a 2bd, 2bath condo at a Sandy Beach resort for $75 a night. Out the door, no hidden fees, Sat, Sun, holidays, etc. No cleaning fees. LP doesn't allow that. LP, I'm told is popular with the younger crowd because of the amenities, specifically the pools. I don't travel to RP with my kids or grandkids anymore so that doesn't interest me. It was just my opinion based on my needs. It's a distraction for me to stay at a property that is not completed. It's an eyesore. I also don't like to look out from my patio and see the rooftops of other buildings. The one I rent at Sonoran, I only see the grass, the sand and the blue water. It doesn't get any better than that. Maybe I looked at a different Tripadvisor web site, but it said the #1 restaurant in RP is the Chinese restaurant. Huh?
the potential employee will need years of experience in the management of a similar size development. we expect to hire the best available individual among many who will certainly apply.
For what it's worth, I've heard Las Palomas, phase 1 & 2, are still operated by the World Wide Group; they own a large number of units, and operate the rental pools; they have stolen hundreds of thousands of USD's from owners who trusted them with the rental income on 3 fronts: 1. For a long period they reported to owners they were paying the hoa fees monthly on their behalf, and provided accounting indicating same. SURPRISE! it was fraud. The hoa fees never made it beyond their pockets. 2. They reported to owners their accumulated rental surplus, after hoa fee deductions, repairs, etc, SURPRISE! it was fraud. The owner's money evaporated. It never went beyond their pockets. 3. They refuse to pay any hoa fees, and you can guess which units get most of the rentals.
I also was told the members of WWG are well connected to the state and federal government so prosecution, until after a possible PRI election this summer, is unlikely. However, this seems unlikely as i think any corruption in Mexico is usually very localized and does not extend too far up the ladder.
For what it's worth, I've heard Las Palomas, phase 1 & 2, are still operated by the World Wide Group; they own a large number of units, and operate the rental pools; they have stolen hundreds of thousands of USD's from owners who trusted them with the rental income on 3 fronts: 1. For a long period they reported to owners they were paying the hoa fees monthly on their behalf, and provided accounting indicating same. SURPRISE! it was fraud. The hoa fees never made it beyond their pockets. 2. They reported to owners their accumulated rental surplus, after hoa fee deductions, repairs, etc, SURPRISE! it was fraud. The owner's money evaporated. It never went beyond their pockets. 3. They refuse to pay any hoa fees, and you can guess which units get most of the rentals.
I also was told the members of WWG are well connected to the state and federal government so prosecution, until after a possible PRI election this summer, is unlikely. However, this seems unlikely as i think any corruption in Mexico is usually very localized and does not extend too far up the ladder.
Could any of this be true? I sure hope not.
Most of the info on your post pertains to old news. The HOA is now (2012) controlled by the owners (not the developer). all enforcement and regulations apply to everyone moving forward (regardless of their affiliation). the rest of your post is filled with rumors and false information. Life as you know is unfair and we often can't correct the past. we can only control today and hopefully tomorrow (be happy and move forward from stage 1 of anger).
I could sit here and tell you all the rumors of every resort along sandy beach, yet what good would that do (by the way many of them were developed by those associated with the development of Las Palomas, including labor unions). in a small town, everything is interconnected.
Yeah and blah blah blah Dryheat. YOU may control the HOA but WWG controls the gdam resort and they stole MILLIONS not hundreds of thousands! Leopards don't change their spots, you included, Got your ass handed to you in the last meeting when Benny quit. Only you and Lorraine left to go!
Yeah and blah blah blah Dryheat. YOU may control the HOA but WWG controls the gdam resort and they stole MILLIONS not hundreds of thousands! Leopards don't change their spots, you included, Got your ass handed to you in the last meeting when Benny quit. Only you and Lorraine left to go!
Hey Dry, i was the guy in the back of the room asking for the vote to break your cartel. I won. You lost.
Thats cute.
In any case, the board has greater control and say than every before when it comes to running the HOA and resort. Recently, we have had more cooperation and meetings with the developers than in the last 8 years combined. Things are finally turning around now that we control the HOA.
Update: I was interested in two condos for sale in phase I and contacted the owners to rent their units and both told me they could not rent at all with the restrictions of the resort. One told me it was difficult to even allow guests to stay for free because it made them look suspicious. He confirmed that the HOA was considering charging a daily fee for all guests to discourage renting.
Sounds like too much trouble and have decided not to purchase at at this time. Is it the same experience at the Sonoran for owners that do not rent their condos?
Hi all--really total newbie to the forums here. My husband and I are coming down on April 29th for the first time. I may be nuts, but we'd like to live there for most of the year, sight unseen. Life is just too hectic and there's no way to afford to retire to the beach in the US. Our kids are still in school, so we're talking about moving in 5-6 years. The prices are SO low that it seems like the time to buy is within the next year. Of course, every realtor will say that prices are rising, we would need to buy NOW. The idea would be to rent out the property when we're not using it until we're there full time(ish).
However, with so many condos available for rent and/or purchase, I think there's an awful lot more supply than demand. To put faith in making money while the property's empty takes a huge leap. And honestly, it seems like the condo fees aren't cheap. I've seen everything from $100 to $500 a month. With $300 being the average, it would be better just to rent someone's condo for $700-1000 a month it seems. Hmph! Difficult decisions!
I have owned a 4 different places on Sandy Beach and one at Las Conchos. Rent before you commit. There are a lot of dirty little secrets you only learn by living there. One place I owned have elevators problems and I was on the 5th floor. One place was overrun with vacationing families and the noise on weekends and holidays was awful. At one condo I had a one bedroom and the owner above Let his family use it. One morniing I asked one of the kids how many people were in the unit that weekend. He said 10. The HOA could do nothing cause he was the owner. so occupancy rules did not apply to him,
Looks like it's been almost a year since LP HOA situation has been discussed. Have things improved? It's looking like my dream of owning a place in PP might finally be happening as I've rounded up a few other families to partner on a purchase. Thing is, they love Las Palomas. I'm indifferent to location, but I think they like the resort feel and the security that comes with it.
My big concern of course is the HOA. I'd love to here from anyone that actually owns there as to how things are going. Thanks in advance!
Ben,
You left me hanging on this thread. :notme: What happened? Did you purchase home or condo? If so, where? As a newcomer, I was considering the same questions you were asking.
Ben,
You left me hanging on this thread. :notme: What happened? Did you purchase home or condo? If so, where? As a newcomer, I was considering the same questions you were asking.
Try sending him a private message through this board. He probably has an alert set so that he gets an email when he recieves a message from here.
Sorry I've been out of the country for the last few weeks...
Unfortunately I still don't have a place in RP, but I did get some information about LP, although I still haven't heard from a lot of owners. They have a new property management company that is very well respected and based in AZ. From what I've heard, people are much happier with this new company. I don't believe they would have taken over this project if LP was still having serious financial issues. I have also visited the resort over the last few months and have found that it has been kept up pretty well. We actually tried to rent there in June and it was completely sold out, so that's a good sign if you're looking for an investment.
I have owned condos at RP for over 13 yrs. Right now there are no 1 bedrooms for sale at Bella Sirena. I owned a 1 bedroom at Spa and have only good things to say about that place. I sold my unit a few years ago. All of the Sonoran condo appear to be well managed also. A couple of months ago I almost bought a 2 bedroom at Princessa but was too late. I like that property because it is not high density. I know someone that bought at Golf Villa and got a great buy but they still have a large unfinished building. I do not know anything about the condo between Sea and Bella but there is someone in this group that owns there. I have been happy at Bella since the start. For awhile I owned a couple in one of the high density place. It was not for me. Pools overcrowded with people eating and drinking in the pool and very noisy. When you have that many people checking in on a weekend, there will be no palopas, or pool chairs by the time I get down there.