Penasco Sea Port is "Imminent," Casinos, Duty Free Stores a Must

http://www.sonoranresorts.mx/gus-brown-sets-the-record-straight-about-convention-center-and-home-port-during-recent-private-meeting/

“What will it take to make this happen?” Gus asked, jumping on this opportunity. The HAL executive outlined three essential requirements of any cruise line before they could consider a cruise itinerary anywhere. Those items included 1.) A steady supply of the special fuel required by a mega cruise ship, 2.) Government authorization to operate casinos on the Sea of Cortez, since it is not considered international water, and 3.) Government authorization to operate Duty Free stores on board the cruise ships.

Thoughts?

the ships stopped going to Mazatlan and Guaymas (well this month they aren't docking) If you know any Alaskans listen to them talk about the waste dumping from ships up there too...wonder if they had the Casinos going on the other Sea of Cortez stops?

jerry said:

the ships stopped going to Mazatlan and Guaymas (well this month they aren't docking) If you know any Alaskans listen to them talk about the waste dumping from ships up there too...wonder if they had the Casinos going on the other Sea of Cortez stops?

Jerry Im pretty sure I read the author say YES. The answer to your question is yes according to the author.

As for the
DUTY FREE Store...........the US inspector going South has hindered sales so bad at UETA that they also might close...........
So whe is the USA protecting people driving into Mexico when they ar the one shipping the guns !!!!
Bill

i talked with a guy that is tight with someone close to the Browns and a member of the Az-Sonora Commission. The homeport (way bigger deal than a cruise stopping point) is the real deal.....the sound you now hear is me eating crow...again
The Sonoran big wigs are also really stoked by their meeting with that Idiot Trumps inbred offspring ....the good thing is the Mexican bigwigs believe these scam artists intend to do big things in Sonora (not sure if related but huge forsale signs on Costal Highway to the sea property South of Lobos are now gone..word is it sold) the the main condition the Trumps had was the Coastal Highway is finished. A few days ago as we were headed down to Libertad for lunch I counted a ten American rv caravan headed North on the Coastal and a 12 Jeep group headed south....The wierd thing is the pressuretreated posts/barbed wire fence that keeps cattle out also blocks all roads to the sea once you get 5 miles South of Lobos...this is great mountain bike terrain.

Carnival Cruise Lines plans to invest more than $150 million to expand port infrastructure at destinations on Mexico’s Pacific and Caribbean coasts, the Tourism Secretariat said.
Carnival representatives and Mexican officials signed an agreement on the Caribbean island of Cozumel at a ceremony attended by President Felipe Calderon and tourism industry officials, the secretariat said.
The company has invested $100 million so far in Mexico and is now planning the development of nine new projects, such as the construction of a cruise terminal in Cozumel and another in Baja California Sur state, Carnival Cruise Lines president and CEO Gerard Cahill said.
The new projects will bolster foreign exchange earnings, create more direct and indirect jobs in the tourism industry, and increase cruise-passenger arrivals in Mexico, Cahill said.
Mexico is “an attractive destination for the development of tourism businesses,” the Carnival executive said.
Tourism industry leaders in the Caribbean resort city of Cancun, meanwhile, called on Calderon to back the campaign to counter the constant travel alerts for Mexico being issued by U.S. authorities.
Members of the Caribbean Business Coordinating Council, or CCEC, have launched the “Stop Warning, Our Tourists Are OK” campaign.
Cancun and the Riviera Maya welcome an average of 50,000 students from across the United States during spring break each year.
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I heard last weekend that the sandy beach port project was in jeopardy again - still some conflict over whether they can dredge enough loose sediment out to achieve the required depth necesary for cruise ships before hitting undredgable bedrock.

I also heard that the Mayan was moving forward again with the plan to build a marina in La Pinta estuary... anyone heard this?

If you have not done it yet google Costa Maya and see what was done there

I heard that it is still a go as planned but construction won't be starting until Spring 2013. No problem, that's only a few months away. I did hear from a very good source, but it's not built until it's built.

moore_rb said:

I heard last weekend that the sandy beach port project was in jeopardy again - still some conflict over whether they can dredge enough loose sediment out to achieve the required depth necesary for cruise ships before hitting undredgable bedrock.

I also heard that the Mayan was moving forward again with the plan to build a marina in La Pinta estuary... anyone heard this?

That would be sad if they messed up the estuary. What a disaster that could be.

GringoZona said:

http://www.sonoranresorts.mx/gus-brown-sets-the-record-straight-about-convention-center-and-home-port-during-recent-private-meeting/

“What will it take to make this happen?” Gus asked, jumping on this opportunity. The HAL executive outlined three essential requirements of any cruise line before they could consider a cruise itinerary anywhere. Those items included 1.) A steady supply of the special fuel required by a mega cruise ship, 2.) Government authorization to operate casinos on the Sea of Cortez, since it is not considered international water, and 3.) Government authorization to operate Duty Free stores on board the cruise ships.

Thoughts?

This is Mexico, James...nothing is 'imminent'.

Jim said:

I heard that it is still a go as planned but construction won't be starting until Spring 2013. No problem, that's only a few months away. I did hear from a very good source, but it's not built until it's built.

Last Tuesday there was a meeting in Tucson with mostly directors of the OCV depts. from the different towns in Sonora and the word out was that the Home port is a for sure thing and construction should start at the end of 2012 beginning of 2013 with a completition date of 2015, but you know how those things go, it might be a long time before it actually takes place.

Also the director of Nogales, Mexico showed how impressive their effort to slow down violence there was and is, a monumental job these guys being doing, I doubt "Elvira's" will move back to Nogales!!!

Now that was a good restaurant! The shots of tequila! Oh, the memories....

The seaport will be finished in October. What year is anybody's guess. :puff:

Elvira's. I miss you. My wife and I used to drive from our home in Phoenix to Nogales just for lunch. The good news is that they do have a new location in the U.S. (near Tubac).

As for the home port, I can only hope it turns out the way they say. What is very common in Mexico is for whomever is in power to create a number of projects where they hire their friends and family via large contracts. They push dirt around for a few years only to leave the project once the fund has run dry. Time will tell. It certainly would be great for Rocky Point if it is completed.

The Tubac one is nice but expensive

Disneynut said:

Elvira's. I miss you. My wife and I used to drive from our home in Phoenix to Nogales just for lunch. The good news is that they do have a new location in the U.S. (near Tubac).

As for the home port, I can only hope it turns out the way they say. What is very common in Mexico is for whomever is in power to create a number of projects where they hire their friends and family via large contracts. They push dirt around for a few years only to leave the project once the fund has run dry. Time will tell. It certainly would be great for Rocky Point if it is completed.

Wood Spinner said:

Why so bad if they do dredge the estuary by the Myan. When I was a
boy in southern California I tried to get my parents to buy the
swamp, back bay at Newport Beach. They told me I was out of my
mind. Now look at it ! It to me is the most logical of
all of the proposed dredge projects for major development. My
problem is that it will cause financially devastating problems in
the city of Puerto Penasco and for that reason I hope it fails.

There are six major estuaries in the area around Puerto Peñasco. These estuaries are essential for life in the greater sea of Cortes', almost all living things in the sea of Cortes rely on the health of the estuaries that we still have, and many animals have spent some of their time in the estuaries. They are essential ecosystems. In the sea of Cortes' it may be hard to believe but 50% of all seafood consumed in the entire country of Mexico comes from the sea of Cortes', when you consider how big the gulf of Mexico is that is an amazing fact. If you kill the estuaries for marinas you can count on killing the sea of Cortes'. CEDO website.

Bill, I'd buy into this (dredging La Pinta) except for one thing - they are going to have to dredge a channel for miles through the sand flats to get there. The channel at La Pinta is probably the deepest spot in the area. However, the beach along the Mayan and south along San Jorge is several miles of tidal flats before reaching any water that's more than a few feet deep. At extreme low tide, you can practically walk from San Jorge out to Bird Island. I've walked for miles on these flats fishing them and have taken pangas out of San Jorge where I could see the sandy bottom nearly all the way out to the island.

The draft on any of these cruise ships requires much deeper water. I could see the first time a captain unfamiliar with the area and tides strands one of these monster vessels. There aren't any high-powered tugs in Penasco to pull him free (at least yet, do I sense a business opportunity?). Shrimp boats barely have enough power to push themselves along. If he didn't float free on the next tide, you'd have new beach-front condos!

:puff:

the first sentence: Carnival Cruise Lines plans to invest more than $150 million to expand port infrastructure at destinations on Mexico’s Pacific and Caribbean coasts, the Tourism Secretariat said.
PP is not along the Pacific or Caribbean coasts, I would think if such development were to be planned for the Sea of Cortez, it may be mentioned as such. Anything north of Loreto to me is doubtful..... but that's just me.

Joester,
I think this is referring to a differend project. Holland American was the cruiseline mentioned in the artical I read. The new cruise port would effect the shallow reefs off sandy beach not the estuary.

Rick
Cholla bay

joester said:

the first sentence: Carnival Cruise Lines plans to invest more than $150 million to expand port infrastructure at destinations on Mexico’s Pacific and Caribbean coasts, the Tourism Secretariat said.
PP is not along the Pacific or Caribbean coasts, I would think if such development were to be planned for the Sea of Cortez, it may be mentioned as such. Anything north of Loreto to me is doubtful..... but that's just me.

When you start seeing and hearing explosions at Black Mtn. Then you know it is happening. That is where the rock needed for the jetty and pier is supposed to come from.
I am hoping it never happens.

The talk about the depth needed for the ship is valid except that most of them have boats on board to shuttle people to and from the ship anchored in deeper water. I do not know the draft on these but I would expect it to less than 4 to 6 ft when loaded. With this in mind why not rework the existing harbor for this system? It keeps people where they are in town and walking distance to the tourist area. I would also think an under water pipe line could be set up for ship refueling.

good idea Bill, saw that some of cruise ships have a draft depth of 26-28', so they should get close to the harbor. the fishermen here know the depths near the harbor, they could tell us how close the cruise ships coud get.

The harbor itself is barely 20 ft. deep along the main channel (depending on tide). Very shallow at the entrance; I've had to watch closely to avoid the sand flats where the Dinner Cruise ship was stranded on occasion - only a couple feet deep at low tide. Just outside the harbor, the water deepens slowly to 40-50 ft. as you head out. Generally 25-30 ft. where you see the shrimp boats anchored just outside the harbor.

When I was on Carnival cruise line out of Long Beach, we stoped in Cabo and they anchored off shore and jettied us in to a small pier on the shore.

I've only been on one cruise and I'll never go again. The ship was so ig it couldn't dock anywhere we went-St. Thomas, St. Martin, St. John, etc. We had to use tenders at every port. It was a total pain in the ass with assigned times to line up for the tenders. Boarding the tender, unboarding, boarding again, waiting, waiting and more waiting. No, thank you!

Actually I just realized its embarking and disembarking, right. Lol!!!!

google "costa maya"

Here is what Costa Maya pier looks like.

Still not seeing an easy way to do cruise ships.
I know that there aren't many areas at 40 ft in depth along Sandy Beach without going out a long ways.
There is many areas that are only 12-20 ft within 1/3 mile of the shore according to a depth sounder gauge we had.

On Disney's private island in the Bahamas (Castaway Cay) they had to dig a large trench under the water for the ships to dock without the need for tenders. I assume the same could be done here (without considering any environmental restrictions). Check it out on Google earth, you can see the dark blue deep water trench next to the very light blue shallow water.

Disneynut said:

On Disney's private island in the Bahamas (Castaway Cay) they had to dig a large trench under the water for the ships to dock without the need for tenders. I assume the same could be done here (without considering any environmental restrictions). Check it out on Google earth, you can see the dark blue deep water trench next to the very light blue shallow water.

By environmental restrictions do you mean environment damages and or effects?

mis2810 said:

By environmental restrictions do you mean environment damages and or effects?

My statement was that it is possible to cut a channel if necessary to allow the ship to dock. I am not that familiar with this this project so I was pointing out that I am not aware of zoning issues or environmental restrictions by any government body that may restrict this.

It is interesting that the cruise ships already seem to have gotten n environmental 'pass,' yet the marina that was planned on Sandy Beach (currently the racetrack), was never allowed to be developed due to environmental concerns. The marina would have had much less impact overall and actually served as an incubator for young sea life. However, enviros raised a big stink about the fragile nature of the reefs along Sandy Beach and the project was shut down by the Mexican courts.

I guess money talks. I haven't heard a peep out of the enviros so far on the cruise ship project, which has the potential for much greater damage than the marina ever did. Viva Mexico. :mexico:

Stuart,
From what I have seen the commercial marina where the racetrack is might still be part of the overall plans. The major problem before was the residentual marinia which would have be built in the estuary. The big dip in the road going to cholla at the Reef was to be the channel to the residentual marina. I still have pictures of the concept drawings. It would have destroyed the estuary.

Rick
Cholla Bay

Stuart said:

It is interesting that the cruise ships already seem to have gotten n environmental 'pass,' yet the marina that was planned on Sandy Beach (currently the racetrack), was never allowed to be developed due to environmental concerns. The marina would have had much less impact overall and actually served as an incubator for young sea life. However, enviros raised a big stink about the fragile nature of the reefs along Sandy Beach and the project was shut down by the Mexican courts.

I guess money talks. I haven't heard a peep out of the enviros so far on the cruise ship project, which has the potential for much greater damage than the marina ever did. Viva Mexico. :mexico:

I hadn't seen the actual plans, but would like to if you could post them. I thought they were just going to open up a channel through Sandy Beach directly to the water, so it seemed. Apparently, they were going to fill the estuary with the dredged materials. This is the CEDO article on it from 2006.

http://www.cedointercultural.org/PR092506.pdf

Regardless, my original point remains - where's the environmental outcry about huge cruise ships in this same area? One of these bad boys screws up and it will make the Fiesta Dinner Cruise sinking look like a walk in the park. Eh, it's okay. These guys know what they're doing. :rofl:

brokenwave said:

Here is what Costa Maya pier looks like.

Still not seeing an easy way to do cruise ships.
I know that there aren't many areas at 40 ft in depth along Sandy Beach without going out a long ways.
There is many areas that are only 12-20 ft within 1/3 mile of the shore according to a depth sounder gauge we had.

If you go out where Wrecked at the reef is it gets very deep very fast

garyd said:

If you go out where Wrecked at the reef is it gets very deep very fast

Not during the lowest tides, and most of the bottom out there is already rock, making it harder to dredge out material to achieve increased depth.

The surveying diver we met back in June at Capones (name was Dally, if I remember right) said that the primary issue the cruise ship dock faces is that they can not dredge deep enough to maintain the minimum 40 feet depth during the lowest tides.

He said that if they dredged the sand all the way down to solid bedrock, that it would still only yield about a 25 foot draft during low tide, leaving the removal of bedrock (blasting) as the next available option (I'm sure the enviros would LOVE that)

The other alternative is making the pier a mile long- meaning they would have to dredge even farther out.

and who wants to walk a mile to shore when their ship docks?

The Costa Maya pier works because the tide swings are far less insane on the Gulf of Mexico side

Since we're discussing cruise ships... this was reported today:

Black Box Recordings Throw New Light on Concordia Tragedy

(10 a.m. EDT) -- The disgraced captain of Costa Concordia deliberately misinformed passengers and the coastguard to the extent of damage to the doomed ship, black box recordings that were allegedly leaked reveal.

Italy's La Stampa newspaper says it has obtained black box recordings, on which Captain Schettino can be heard asking the officer in command of the ship's engine room: "So are we really going down?" Cruise Critic has been unable to independently verify the information in La Stampa's report.

Then three minutes later, reports La Stampa, Schettino told passengers that the ship had simply suffered a power cut -- despite knowing it had hit a rock and was taking on water.

Costa Concordia sank in January off the island of Giglio, Tuscany, with the loss of 32 lives.

According to La Stampa, the black box recordings also reveal that seconds after the collision at 9.45 p.m. Schettino is heard saying: "Madonna what have I done?" And at 10.02 p.m. he calls the Italian coastguard saying: "We've had a blackout, we're just evaluating... at most we're going to need a tugboat." He continued to resist calls from his officers to give the abandon ship warning until 11.19pm.

As the evacuation was taking place, Schettino is heard making a call to his his wife to tell her that everything was "under control," reports La Stampa.

He told her: "We hit a reef, the ship is listing but I performed a great manoeuvre ... everything is under control," he said, but added: "My career as a captain is over."

Schettino then fled the ship before all the passengers had been evacuated, claiming he had "tripped" into a life boat.

Schettino faces a number of charges including manslaughter, abandoning ship and failing to communicate with maritime authorities. The next court hearing takes place on October 15.

Black Box Recordings Throw New Light on Concordia Tragedy - MSC Cruises