Just wanted to report back. We came through the border yesterday afternoon at 4:30 - we were the only car crossing. Our SUV was loaded with stuff because we had been down there for a week. The extremely unfriendly Mexican border guy - yes, he was a Mexican with a heavy accent who has obviously become a very persnickety US Citizen, gave us the big stink eye when he decided that my Mexican husband (who is a legal permanent resident) looked a little too Mexican for his taste. He asked me 3 times if I knew the "man" sitting next to me. HUH??? Yeah, like I'm stupid enough to pick up a strange Mexican man from the side of the road and try to cross him. He called over the lady border agent with the dog and they got out the mirror. The lady was knocking all over the sides of the SUV while the dog sniffed to see if we had drugs inside the panels of the SUV, I'm sure.
During this time, the Mexican guy asked me 3 times where I worked, what I do for a living, does my husband have any other ID with a photo (his Mexican passport and DL!), where were we, what did we do, while down there and did I bring back any fruits or vegetables. Never asked about alcohol.
So the lady agent comes back around and gives the Mexican agent the "look". He says to her, "I think we need to check this one out reeeaaaaallll gooood, what do you think?" She says, "Definitely". At this point I want to piss my pants and scream at the same time. We had 3 cases of beer in the back under the suitcases!!!! LOL OK, so what's the worst thing that could happen, we dump the beer or pay a fine? I've crossed tons of beer in the past, but never had to go to secondary.
So we pull over to Lane 1 of the secondary inspection area. We're told to leave our cell phones and the car keys on the dashboard - I can take my purse with me - and then we're escorted inside. We wait - and wait - and wait - 30 minutes later, a new guy (white guy) comes in and says do you have any alcohol to declare? I said (in my best dummy voice), "Well, no, not alcohol, just beer." He says, "Beer is alcohol and you can only cross with 1 liter per person." I said that I thought that rule only applied to hard alcohol like tequila. He said, no, beer included. So I just sit there like a dummy and he says, "Well, if you won't tell, I won't tell, and you can cross with the beer." I proceed to tell him twice, "No, I don't want to do anything wrong." He tells me not to worry about it, it's okay.
He then tells us that they've unpacked the entire car, and if we want them too, they will repack it, or we can do it like we want to. He actually offered to repack the car?!?!???? I was stunned.
We repacked ourselves and headed out and that was it! First time since 1997 I've ever been pulled over for secondary! Those 3 cases of Corona are gonna taste even better now!
glug-glug.... ahhhhh. Yeah, it's really weird on the alcohol thing. None of the ports of entry in AZ are authorized to collect duty. So, they have two options. Confiscate, or let you go. Most cases, they just let you go if you're a bottle or so over the limit. The wife and I came back from a three-weeker with several bottles of booze one trip and played "dumb gringo" with the same result. We even declared it, saying we had a few bottles of booze, so no shock when the agent found it during secondary.
So what happens next time if I do the same thing. Do they put it in the computer that you tried to pass the alcohol once, told you rule and then you do again they get tough? Because, I really love my Mexican Corona and want to bring it home with me!
I'm convinced SUV + brownish skin == secondary inspection.
Our friends get pulled over every time - although never for the complete disassembly. They have an older Chevy suburban. They have some asian or mexican genes and he has long hair. It doesn't seem to matter that they have their young kids with them!
We're white and in a mini-van and never get pulled over.
jmcdtucson - You're probably right, but this is the first time we've ever been pulled over. I've crossed with my husband close to 10 times. I'm of Italian descent so when I get tan I get pretty dark - most people think I'm Mexican anyway. I think the only think missing from your equation is:
"Hispanic Agent + SUV + brownish skin == secondary inspection".
I figured I would get hassled over my new boyfriend as he is equal parts Mexican, Blackfoot and white and has brown eyes, olive skin and long (almost to his waist) dark brown hair, moustache and beard. So far, so good, 3 trips. I guess being old has it's benefits. LOL! We are 54......
Secondary inspection is not fun. They pull me in whenever I have my boat hooked up.
But I'll still take secondary and a little inconvenience over being walked into the detention cell wearing handcuffs (3 times so far).... :)
That would really suck. I saw the cuffs hanging off the railing inside. The cameras were kind of freaking me out too. I'm sure there was someone watching our body language while we waited. Even if you have nothing to hide (except a shitload of beer!) it's still nerve wracking.
That same guys has done the smae thing to me, I cross 1 or twicw a week, all the other agents joke with me but not that guy, I got so pissed at him and called him J Edgar Hoover, and he asked whos that, God love America, not tht it has any bering but after 2 tours in Nam I think I am just as American than most
That same guys has done the smae thing to me, I cross 1 or twicw a week, all the other agents joke with me but not that guy, I got so pissed at him and called him J Edgar Hoover, and he asked whos that, God love America, not tht it has any bering but after 2 tours in Nam I think I am just as American than most
Apparently J. Edgar Hoover wasn't one of the questions on the exam to become a US Citizen. The agent's name was Gonzalez. I just don't understand why they treat "their own" so poorly. Why does he have any special right to become a US citizen and my Mexican national husband doesn't? I'm told by other Mexican friends that the Mexican consulate workers in Phoenix treat the "darker" Mexicans like dirt. This is one of the reason why I like animals better than people most of the time. Just sayin'.
MIS Sez: "I'm told by other Mexican friends that the Mexican consulate workers in Phoenix treat the "darker" Mexicans like dirt"
This is true all over the world, but reverses in a country with a majority of dark skinned folk.
I just don't get that mentality. Why would you treat "your own" like dirt? I know it happens, I just can't comprehend. Just to make themselves feel better? So stupid.
I just don't get that mentality. Why would you treat "your own" like dirt? I know it happens, I just can't comprehend. Just to make themselves feel better? So stupid.
There is more of a chance "their own" are members of a cartel & smuggling.
So the average Mexican person that goes into the Mexican consulate in Phoenix to register their child's birth deserved to be treated like dirt because that person has a better chance of being a cartel member or a smuggler?
If there is more of a chance that Mexicans are members of a cartel and smugglers as you're suggesting then why wouldn't the white agents be just as suspicious?
I'm unclear why a register of birth at the consulate is relevant to crossing the border - are you describing the process for registering an achor baby? Nobody deserves to be treated like dirt, but statistically speaking, yes - A Mexican national crossing the border is going to fit the drug smuggling/cartel profile more closely than say a caucasion who is also a US citizen.
The US border agents (regardless of color) are not allowed to racial profile, but I'm sure the Mexican agents abide by a different set of rules.
I just don't get that mentality. Why would you treat "your own" like dirt? I know it happens, I just can't comprehend. Just to make themselves feel better? So stupid.
Shortly after the conquest of Mexico by the Spaniards, a social class structure developed. Inter race racism has been apart of Mexico since this early time. " Spanish colonial authorities defined socioeconomic class rankings simply, ... color-class...". Race and place of birth determined social status. At the top were the Gachupines. Gachupines were Spanish born Spaniards and held the highest social status. Below them were the Criollos. Criollos were domestic born Spaniards, some of whom had mixed blood lines. The Criollos werent allowed to hold Church or State offices and they resented the Gachupines. Below the Criollos were the Mestizos. Mestizos had mixed blood from Criollos, Indian, and African. The mestizo population early in the colonial period became the carriers of Spanish culture and were referred to as Hispanicized. Lastly, we have the non assimilated Indians and African slaves. These two groups had no rights whatsoever and remained Peons throughout this time period. Some were able to raise their social status through intermarriage with Criollos or Mestizos. In addition, place of birth, where someone lived or what they did for a living affected the social structure as well. Gachupines and Criollos were land owners. Mestizos, Indians and Africans were debt peons working on the haciendas. Debt peonage essentially locks in generations of labor by fronting money to the peon and before he can pay it off you give him more. Furthermore, mestizos, Indians and Africans lived in republicas de indios. One way the Mestizos were able to gain social rank was by moving to the Frontera or by intermarriage to lighten up the blood line. The Mestizos that moved to the North became Vaqueros or cattle ranchers and used the same kind of debt peon labor. Through the generations their skin color lightened and they now used the darker colored hispanisized indians for labor. The Spanish economic system was built on the Feudal System. Mexico was built on the Feudal System and that system is HIGHLY dependent on CHEAP LABOR. How do you keep labor cheap? By creating social class and RACISM. Finally, in short, the white Spaniard is above the Spain-exican, The Spain-exican is above the Mestizo, and the Mestizo is above the un assimilated indian and or African slave. NOTHING has changed, TODAY in MEXICO this social class still exists. The lighter Mexicans have money and power and the Darker Mexicans provide the cheap debt peon labor. Inter-Mexican Racism, KEEP THE BROWN DOWN and KEEP THEM WORKING CHEAP....
There is more of a chance "their own" are members of a cartel & smuggling.
I would bet, on a percentage basis that customs and border patrol agents working (taking money from the cartels) , is about the same as Mexicans working for the cartels.
As Roberto is well aware of too, as we both have lived in N.M. for some years (7 for me) the Patron is alive and well in New Mexico as well... As Joe's post says, there is a class distinction within the conquistadors when it comes to color, and I've heard "I'm a light skinned Spaniard" come out of the mouths of people born and raised in New Mexico. Though N.M. has varied and broad ethnic culture's, there is still a undercurrent of prejudice and bigotry that flows freely there. One thing though... If you had a Totem pole for N.M., and the one at the bottom was just that, the star of Texas would be there.:-D
Debt peonage essentially locks in generations of labor by fronting money to the peon and before he can pay it off you give him more.
The Spanish economic system was built on the Feudal System. Mexico was built on the Feudal System and that system is HIGHLY dependent on CHEAP LABOR. How do you keep labor cheap? By creating social class and RACISM. Finally, in short, the white Spaniard is above the Spain-exican, The Spain-exican is above the Mestizo, and the Mestizo is above the un assimilated indian and or African slave. NOTHING has changed, TODAY in MEXICO this social class still exists. The lighter Mexicans have money and power and the Darker Mexicans provide the cheap debt peon labor. Inter-Mexican Racism, KEEP THE BROWN DOWN and KEEP THEM WORKING CHEAP....
Interesting viewpoints....
I don't want to derail this discussion too much further, but little do most people know (or recognize) that today, the entire WORLD is subject to the Feudal System. All National currencies (including the almighty US Dollar) are instruments of debt designed to keep governments enslaved to bankers, and citizens enslaved to governments... There is no such thing as a free person, unless that person is a multi-national corporation (like General Electric) who pays no tax to any government.
Do you, Mr average American, think you are free? Do you think you own your house just because the mortgage is paid off? Hah- just fail to make a single property tax payment, and you will find out very quickly who really owns your house. The title on your land says you are a TENANT IN COMMON. You are not the sovereign owner unless you have successfully legally maneuvered to have your land transferred to an Alloidial Title.
So, when I see discussions about racism (which is simply another form of illogical preferential treatment based on the color of people's skin), what I see is smoke in mirrors. The truth is exactly as Joe has laid it out-
People rely on a false illusion based on some arbitrary status symbol (like skin color, national heritage, or the fact that you drive a BMW) to somehow elevate themselves above the "need" to do real work, but this phenomonon exists on a much more global scale than simply Mexico....
I don't want to derail this discussion too much further, but little do most people know (or recognize) that today, the entire WORLD is subject to the Feudal System. All National currencies (including the almighty US Dollar) are instruments of debt designed to keep governments enslaved to bankers, and citizens enslaved to governments... There is no such thing as a free person, unless that person is a multi-national corporation (like General Electric) who pays no tax to any government.
Do you, Mr average American, think you are free? Do you think you own your house just because the mortgage is paid off? Hah- just fail to make a single property tax payment, and you will find out very quickly who really owns your house. The title on your land says you are a TENANT IN COMMON. You are not the sovereign owner unless you have successfully legally maneuvered to have your land transferred to an Alloidial Title.
So, when I see discussions about racism (which is simply another form of illogical preferential treatment based on the color of people's skin), what I see is smoke in mirrors. The truth is exactly as Joe has laid it out-
People rely on a false illusion based on some arbitrary status symbol (like skin color, national heritage, or the fact that you drive a BMW) to somehow elevate themselves above the "need" to do real work, but this phenomonon exists on a much more global scale than simply Mexico....
Well, my post above was meant to stir the pot (of thought) a little bit... :), but, truth is truth- there is no national currency in existence today that is not a debt liability against the citizenry. That's why the US is $14 Trillion in debt (equating to a completely un-payable 400k plus for every US citizen)
As for the WashingtonPost Story- I rate the WashingtonPost right up there with the New York Times- both are endeared to the establishment.
What GE pays in income taxes, it saves (with interest) in other tax favors- the company maintains a goal to be tax-neutral year over year.
But my point was simple- Racism, legal favoritism and other "divide and conquer" tactics are "false fronts" that serve to pit people against each other so that the "privileged" few can remain privileged...
Oh, and I'll also add regarding my point above about alloidial land title, that even Alloidal Title does not exempt you from property taxes... but it does make it about 100 times harder for "them" to legally kick you off your land in a tax dispute.
But my point was simple- Racism, legal favoritism and other "divide and conquer" tactics are "false fronts" that serve to pit people against each other so that the "privileged" few can remain privileged...
But we've made tremendous gains in catching up, after all it wasn't that long ago when only the "privileged few" could legally own dogs in big parts of Europe. Now not only can anyone own them, they get to walk around after them with little bags and a scoop.:woo:
I'm unclear why a register of birth at the consulate is relevant to crossing the border - are you describing the process for registering an achor baby? Nobody deserves to be treated like dirt, but statistically speaking, yes - A Mexican national crossing the border is going to fit the drug smuggling/cartel profile more closely than say a caucasion who is also a US citizen.
The US border agents (regardless of color) are not allowed to racial profile, but I'm sure the Mexican agents abide by a different set of rules.
This post has gotten off-topic, but I feel the need to answer this particular poster. Stuart - I will keep this civil on my end.
The register of a birth at the Mexican consulate is not relevant to crossing the border other than the fact that I was using it as an example of how Mexicans sometimes treat each other.
As for the "anchor baby" label - there is no such thing. Children born in the US to Mexican parents do not automatically guarantee that the parents will not get deported. If you think otherwise, do your research and think again. I personally know families where the parents worked at the same place, both have been caught and deported even though they have children who are US Citizens. Those children do not guarantee the parents any rights whatsoever.
This post has gotten off-topic, but I feel the need to answer this particular poster. Stuart - I will keep this civil on my end.
The register of a birth at the Mexican consulate is not relevant to crossing the border other than the fact that I was using it as an example of how Mexicans sometimes treat each other.
As for the "anchor baby" label - there is no such thing. Children born in the US to Mexican parents do not automatically guarantee that the parents will not get deported. If you think otherwise, do your research and think again. I personally know families where the parents worked at the same place, both have been caught and deported even though they have children who are US Citizens. Those children do not guarantee the parents any rights whatsoever.
MIS2810 is right. I also personally know undocumented immigrants with American born children who were deported. It happens every day.... There is NO SUCH THING as an anchor baby!
MIS2810 is right. I also personally know undocumented immigrants with American born children who were deported. It happens every day.... There is NO SUCH THING as an anchor baby!
My step daughter Yadira, has 3 U.S. born kids and an American husband and is being deported, because she didn't come over legal to begin with. It costs me about 2000.00 every 6 months for her attorney to delay the inevitable. Sooner or later they are gonna come for her.
My step daughter Yadira, has 3 U.S. born kids and an American husband and is being deported, because she didn't come over legal to begin with. It costs me about 2000.00 every 6 months for her attorney to delay the inevitable. Sooner or later they are gonna come for her.
In these particular circumstances (husband and children who are US citizens) - what is the liklihood that she would/could get her legal immigration papers after being deported? I assume the process is long, slow, and painful, but doesn't marriage pretty much guarantee that she will get her visa?
I feel sadness for these kinds of examples- why shouldn't two people who choose to marry and raise a family have the right to live and raise their family whereever the hell they choose? It just strengthens my absolute opinion that national borders absolutely suck.
I applaud everyone who chooses to create families comprised of integrated customs, languages, cultures and histories. I can't stand that anyone else (especially the fear mongers in DC) want to keep erecting bigger and stronger barriers to this natural human integration process.
This whole thing with immigration, and border security, confiscating fruits and uncooked meats, and everybody named Robert Moore getting handcuffed because one person named Robert Moore is wanted by the FBI... it all borders on the absolute ridiculous. I mean really- all of this because of drugs and the THREAT of terrorism? for Chrissake- it would be easier, cheaper, and WAY more efficient to simply let commerce law regulate the drug trade. Didn't Prohibition in the 1920's teach this country ANYTHING? Laws that deny freedom only turn freedom loving people into criminals. The US already maintains the highest percentage of its citizenry behind bars of any nation on Earth- again I ask- does this sound like the land of the free and the home of the brave?
And, if all this border security crap is truly because of the threat of terrorism, then I fear what would come after the next terrorist attack (hint: closed borders and NOBODY coming OR going). With regards to the terror threat- laws do NOT prevent crime. Laws set the framework by which we legally treat people based on their criminal actions- All these "preventative" measures simply waste time and money. Anyone that wants to attack the US will find the way to do it. That is a scary, but inescapable fact of life. Runaway laws and gun yielding border agents do not guarantee safety.
I know, I know- I'm on my soapbox again, but I am a Patriot. I want my freedom. Borders are barriers- they make me feel like a caged animal. If Gorillas and Chimps in zoos are capable of feeling anguish, then I can dare say I understand how they feel...
But, if I denied myself the pleasure of sitting on the beach that I choose to sit on, and to fish in the water that I choose to fish in, just to avoid the 20 minutes of anguish at the border, that would mean that the zookeepers are winning, and my free spirit of liberty is losing.
Well said, Robert. See below for the answer to your question.
moore_rb said:
In these particular circumstances (husband and children who are US citizens) - what is the liklihood that she would/could get her legal immigration papers after being deported? I assume the process is long, slow, and painful, but doesn't marriage pretty much guarantee that she will get her visa?
I went through the process (minus the children) you described above. Believe me, it is HELL. Marrying a US Citizen does not guarantee an immigrant visa. Back in the 90's/early 2000's there was so much marriage/visa fraud that rules and procedures were put into place that a US citizen who marries an undocumented/illegal immigrant would have to prove a case of extreme hardship as to why the US Citizen could not live in the US without their undocumented spouse and also why it would cause the US Citizen an extreme hardship to live in their spouse's country of origin.
I did it and trust me it wasn't easy. Everyone thinks the minute you marry a foreign national the foreigner automatically becomes a US Citizen or just gets a green card. As difficult as it is for an undocumented Mexican, it's even more difficult for people from the middle east. Once the person has entered the US without a valid visa, in order to adjust status, another one of the requirements is that the person return to their country of origin while waiting for their documents to be processed. Families are separated for years on end while waiting for their cases to be adjudicated in the relevant consulate. In many cases a visa isn't granted because the intended immigrant has had problems with the law - which I completely agree with and understand. But the prolonged separation of families is still very sad.
My husband and were lucky, we were only separated for 6 weeks. I wrote on this forum awhile ago about the entire process. I'll see if I can find it.
My understanding is that if somewhat is caught and deported, it is almost impossible to get back in "legally".....I know of a few in Penasco who have come back from the states voluntarily(without getting caught/deported) to wait out their time....
Back in the 90's/early 2000's there was so much marriage/visa fraud that rules and procedures were put into place that a US citizen who marries an undocumented/illegal immigrant would have to prove a case of extreme hardship as to why the US Citizen could not live in the US without their undocumented spouse and also why it would cause the US Citizen an extreme hardship to live in their spouse's country of origin.
I sit here shaking my head...
"We can't deny you the right marry whoever you choose, but we CAN deny you the right to choose where you will live, so that's what we'll do..."
"We can't deny you the right marry whoever you choose, but we CAN deny you the right to choose where you will live, so that's what we'll do..."
Brilliant in its elemental stupidity.
That's exactly what it boils down to. Sad to say I was grateful that I even had the opportunity to adjust my husband's status after seeing some of the trials and tribulations some people have to go through. What happened to my right as a US Citizen to the pursuit of happiness? I have to prove that my life would be an extreme hardship if my pursuit of happiness leads me to a non-US Citizen?
Also, this letter of extreme hardship is not just some: "Dear Sir or Madam: My husband needs to live with me in the US because . . . ."
It's literally a thesis. It took me 6 months of daily writing, research, gathering of medical records, etc. to work on this letter. The letter itself was 17 pages long, not counting the summary and the table of contents. There were 71 tabbed exhibits attached. It was 2 inches thick. This is NORMAL for a hardship letter. If you want to google to see what I'm talking about look up I-601 Application.
I think the deportation will be for life,in our case. Ms2810 what happened to the couple you new from Chicago with the immigration problem?
I don't know the couple from Chicago personally. The people I was referring to that I personally know were neighbors of ours in Phoenix. I just happened to run across that article while reading the news yesterday and posted the link because it was relevant to what we were talking about - illegal parents being deported even though they have US born children.
As for the family that I know personally, the parent's were deported and the children stayed with relatives for awhile until they could decide what they wanted to do. Their choices were 1) Leave the kids with the relatives so they could grow up here in the US with a US education/health care and only see their parents during school vacations, or 2) Send the US born kids back to Mexico to be with their parents. After about 9 months they ultimately chose to send the kids back to Mexico because it was too hard for the relatives financially to take in 2 additional children (the parent's didn't make enough $$ in Mexico to be able to send money up here!), and because they just couldn't stand to be separated from their children.
As has been pointed out, marriage to a US citizen or giving birth to a child in the US don't automatically or immediately offer assurances that someone can stay in the States. Well, neither does an American adoption.
Please visit http://site.bringmaxhome.com/ to read about the Jeffery family. They legally adopted their Mexican-born son in Arizona when he was just weeks old. When it came time to get a passport for him, he was denied. Little Max (now 5 yrs old) cannot go home. It's been more than three years and his family has been devastated emotionally and economically by the struggle to get the American government to let him go home.
American citizens who think that marriage or having a child are an easy way to slide into the country have no idea how difficult the process is and how many good people's lives are devastated by uncaring and power-mad bureaucrats. If you think the bozos at the border get heavy-handed sometimes, that's nothing compared to what happens to some consulate employees when they're given a DENIED stamp and red ink pad.
And while all the blowhards go on and on about Mexican immigration (legal or otherwise), take a look at what the Chinese are doing right under your noses!
I thought the customs regs state 1 ltr, 1 whine bott, or a 6 pk per person, PER MONTH. Always wondered if the one bottle I do declare is recorded? Never been called on it... yet.
RP Homeowner friend of mine told me he got a secondary and failed to declare numerous botts of the good stuff purchased at the duty fee store. After the search, the agent asked how much he wished to declare. "I dunno, a few. Agent confiscated 3 of the 6 botts cause he only said a few. Agent went on to say, that sometimes they will allow the RETURN of overbuying to the duty fee store. Umm, where's that reciept?
Oh geez, there i go thinking we were talking about secondary searches and border booze cruises. Now I realized this thread was puffed up on a thread hijacking charge! UGH!
The agent that let us go through with 3 cases of beer told me that the 1 liter rule is not a Federal law it's an AZ state law. He said if you cross through Texas you can bring in as much booze as you want. Not sure if that's correct, but that's what the guy said.