I'm sure it's been asked before, but I was not able to find it via search. Does anybody know if a 14 year old needs to have the passport card, or does their birth certificate suffice?
Technically, the birth certificate works for everyone. I interviewed a port supervisor as I was coming across and asked that question. He said there is no way they will refuse entry to an American...they just have to be sure that person is, in fact, American.
I crossed back into the US from Sonoyta on Feb 8, 2010, and I had some time to make small talk with an Agent while they x-rayed my boat, so I asked them about the Passport
question. Here's what she said:
Adults must prove their citizenship-
1) Birth certificate alone will not do it because it is not a picture ID.
2) Driver's license alone will not work because it only proves RESIDENCE, not citizenship.
2) Birth Certificate plus Driver's license WILL work for adults born in the US. The DL serves as the picture ID, and the birth cert proves your citizenship. Obviously, your name on your DL and Birth cert has to match.- NOTE that this method ONLY works for US citizens BORN in the US- Naturalized citizens born outside the US can not use this method.
3) Passports, of course- work just fine and require no other source of ID.
Children under 18 who do not have a passport can only cross in the company of a parent or legal Guardian:
1) The parent or guardian has to prove their own citizenship using options 2 or 3 above.
2) The parent can prove the childs citizenship by producing the childs' birth certificate, showing the parent's name AS IT IS WRITTEN on the parent's picture ID (Driver's License or passport)- Legal guardian's have to provide documented evidence that they are the child's legal caretaker. Again- the names have to match the adult's picture ID
So, the only difference between children and adults is that children do not have to provide picture ID- providing that they are travelling with their parent/guardian.
Now, all that being said, my wife and I are just going to go ahead and get passports for our kids and be done with it...
Thank you all so much for the info. I want to go in March, but I don't think I'd be able to afford BOTH of us to get a passport (plus the cost of the trip). This helps!
Rosy, show me the link or interview that a Border supervisor states the US policy is they will unilaterally accept a BCert to enter the country carte blanche regardless of the current law. And especially if the Birth Cert says born before 1994.
My message, your BC and proof that you bought your Mexican auto insurance from me will be all the carte blanche you need! I haven't written the article yet, because I'm following it up next week with more, as I have to go back with the new president of CANACO. I see you already confirmed...good! Now all you need is the insurance...
Rosy....are you saying that even an ADULT won't need a passport if we print yourmessage (and get insurance from you)?? I'm a poor soul....if I don't have to pay for a passport...then I'll be able to spend more $$ in the town!!!
Rosy....are you saying that even an ADULT won't need a passport if we print yourmessage (and get insurance from you)?? I'm a poor soul....if I don't have to pay for a passport...then I'll be able to spend more $$ in the town!!!
If I tell you, will you buy your insurance from me?
As per Customs they can not deny access to a USA citizen to his/her country, "might take awhile if you come to the border naked, but at the end you will be sent home with a new set of cloth", passport, pass card, pic ID and BC only accelerates the process, in other words you can go anywhere you please to go to just make sure that if you do not have proper paperwork it will take you longer to get home, even if you are a naturilized citizen!!! :deadhorse:
What's with all these people who can't "afford" to get a passport card for their kid? This regulation was put out what.....almost 3 years ago now? It was postponed how many times???:gay::roll::?
Hmm...the ProAlliance Insurance link has always been right under my name as part of my signature. www.proalliance.com.mx Thank you in advance and welcome to the ranks!
....... By sea or by air, then the other rules apply, Passport please.......
Sorry Wahoo, I think I understand that what you mean to say is that the rules are ALWAYS the same by sea, land or air, however the procedures are different in land crossing that it is in sea or air ports?.
As far as I know, luckly for us we do not have to go thru a seaport or airpport their procedure is to jail the person in question inmediatelly until his/hers identity has been confirm and I mean jail no handcuff and sit in a cushy chair in Lukeville. :eek3:
That is the truth, "If by land and you have two forms of ID, one being your BC". The names do have to match and it would help greatly if the BC is original or certified original.
My understanding from conversations with the ICE folk is that the birth certificate must be original or a certified copy so be careful with the copies.
But yes, you do not need a passport. Come on down and enjoy yourselves.
Congratulations on posting clear and concise factual information! There has been a lot of confusion about the proof of U.S. citizenship requirement, and people have been chasing this around for some time. Border inspectors cannot deny admission to U.S. citizens, but the citizen has to submit proof of citizenship to the satisfaction of the border inspector. A U.S. passport is the basic stand-alone document to establish U.S. citizenship. No excuse not to have one if you plan to leave the country (and plan to return).
My understanding from conversations with the ICE folk is that the birth certificate must be original or a certified copy so be careful with the copies.
But yes, you do not need a passport. Come on down and enjoy yourselves.
On a whim, my sister (visiting from NY), brother & I went down over President's Day weekend (P.S. Went by all your homes & nobody around. Sorry I missed ya.). My brother showed a D.L. & S.S. Card & my sister her D.L. & credit card. No problems whatsoever. I had my passport card & thankfully this time (unlike Nov. due to a stress test) I didn't set off the radiation scan, so smoothe sailing back to the US.
Hope to see you all soon.
Michele
D.L. and credit card? That's a good one. Thanks, Michele. It's pretty obvious that efforts will be made to let Americans back in and people are stressing entirely too much. Agree with Joe, though...everyone should go ahead and get the passport card.
D.L. and credit card? That's a good one. Thanks, Michele. It's pretty obvious that efforts will be made to let Americans back in and people are stressing entirely too much. Agree with Joe, though...everyone should go ahead and get the passport card.
Come on folks...this requirement has been around for quite some time....and it is not expensive to meet. What is it, $45 for the card???? If you visit 4 times in the next 10 years, that's only a little over $10 per visit. People blow much more than that at the shops on the Malecon!!! It's also only taking 2-3 weeks now to get the card or even the full passport!!!
I can see the reluctance if it is a one time visit, and you don't anticipate going outside of the US again any time in the next 10 years.......
What's with all these people who can't "afford" to get a passport card for their kid? This regulation was put out what.....almost 3 years ago now? It was postponed how many times???:gay::roll::?
Sheesh!!!!!!!!!!:deadhorse:
What's WITH me is....I've raised THREE girls without any assistance from their father and I still have a 14 year old that is in cheer, softball, etc....it's EXPENSIVE. By the way......I was pretty much BROKE 3 years ago also!!
What's WITH me is....I've raised THREE girls without any assistance from their father and I still have a 14 year old that is in cheer, softball, etc....it's EXPENSIVE. By the way......I was pretty much BROKE 3 years ago also!!
So....you can afford the cheer, softball, etc.....but can't afford a $45 passport card that you would be using....how often???? Let me get you the cheese for your whine!!! I've raised 2 kids, and still have one in college, as a single parent, PLUS was ALSO paying $$$$ a month in child support to their mother!!! That's why I'm a "trailer trash" instead of a condo-pigeon cooper! Skip one Starbucks a month, or one cigarette per day, or???....and you have your money! PULEEEZE.....:deadhorse::rofl:
My daughter's had a full passport since she was 16....comes out to less than $10 per year.....or $1 per month.
You're a real judgemental SOB aren't you? I haven't been to RP for about 6 years. You obviously make a bit more money than an Admin. Assistant. Whatever....take that cheese and.....
Oh...and I don't DRINK COFFEE!! And, yeah, to my daughter, cheer and softball are more important than one weekend. I used to LOVE Rocky Point, been going there since the late 70's....but if you are there....I think I'll SAVE the $90 bucks.
You're a real judgemental SOB aren't you? I haven't been to RP for about 6 years. You obviously make a bit more money than an Admin. Assistant. Whatever....take that cheese and.....
You're the one who responded to my post about people not getting a passport card....which costs all of $45, and brought up your "economic condition"! Maybe I am judgemental when it comes to some of the crybabies that have been on here complaining that they can't afford a passport card, when they do come to Penasco often.
And, for your information, when my son was playing competitive soccer (one of those traveling/tournament teams) I had to work a second job just to pay for that.
I also LOVE coming to Penasco, and I've been "broke", particularly when I was paying child support, but I found a way to come down......
If you read my post, you would see that I also wrote "I can see the reluctance if it is a one time visit, and you don't anticipate going outside of the US again any time in the next 10 years....... "
So, enjoy your visit to Penasco....you should be fine with just a birth certificate (original/certified) and a picture ID!
Welcome Doe. RJ, why not welcome new people on here and not be an ass? She doesn't owe you any explanation of what she can afford.
Doe , just read over the other posts. You should be okay with certified BC's.
Waterkids....she'sthe one who responded to my post....a post that was general in nature commenting about the requirement being around for while and a passport card not being that expensive. She's the one who brought up her "economic condition" and having to raise her kids without any support!
I agree, she doesn't owe me an explanantion....we all have our own problems in life, and expenses to meet, but I considered her reply to my post as whining. I've seen enough of this whining in many other threads on this Forum about people not being able to "afford" a $45 passport card, but can afford to make several trips down to Penasco throughtout the year.
So if that makes me an SOB or an ass......so be it!!!
What's with all these people who can't "afford" to get a passport card for their kid? This regulation was put out what.....almost 3 years ago now? It was postponed how many times???:gay::roll::?
Sheesh!!!!!!!!!!:deadhorse:
Some people are having a harder time now than ever before, and unlike some other fortunate people try to give their kids and themselves a good time by cutting corners. I understand that because at one time I had to work my tailbone off to give my kids extras just like yourself. I heard no whining from this newcomer to our board, only a single mother looking for a couple of shortcuts to save a little money for frivolities.
The passport issue is about to show its true colors again during this spring break. A college student is not about to spend this months allowance on nexy months entertainment. RP needs spring break but I don't believe we'll ever see the same big crowds as of old. A lot of folks think that SB is not necessary to the economy but I believe it is.
I also believe that this fairly new law is a burden to many others who at the last moment want to visit our hang out.
dmcauley....I agree...there was no whining in her original post.....
With the way the law is being enforced (or not being enforced), I'm sure the word has gotten around to the kids, and won't stop them from coming down....if they (or their parents) can afford to. I believe it will be a matter of the economy influencing most....
I would be interested in hearing from some of the bar owners to see if the condos, and the partying that went on at a couple in recent times influenced their business during spring break, with fewer kids venturing down to the Mirador or Malecon for their partying. I remember years ago the "old" Pithaya had a lot of partyers, as did Manny's and Pink Cadillac.
Thanks all. I wonder too how much this new law has affected the number of people that visit RP. I'm sure it's quite a bit less than before. And...the only people that this law hurts are the US LAW ABIDING citizens. The dealers and 'others' will come across the border anyway.
I don't really think it has affected how many people come down....those who are really concerned just delay visiting and get the passport card or passport. Others just "risk" it, knowing that they can't be prevented from coming back to the US if they are "legal". The economy and fear of violence has probably caused most of the drop in visitors..... IMHO.....
Now, if the Mexican government starts checking for passports when you try to enter....that will put a damper on the visitors.......
I'll just skip over all the back and forth about "who's poorer than whom" :) and just point out a simple fact that has been repeated several times now in this discussion:
US citizens do NOT have to have to have a passport to re-enter the US. They only need to be able PROVE their citizenship.
A passport is the best and easiest way to do this, but it is NOT the only way... If you have a US issued picture ID and you were born in the US and can prove it with your birth certificate, then you are GOLDEN- save the $40 and go have a blast on the beach and pound some margaritas...
Between all the confusion about this passport issue and all the news reports of car jacking, RP is suffering even more unfairly during already tough times, IMO...
Now, if the Mexican government starts checking for passports when you try to enter....that will put a damper on the visitors.......
I agree, but with the economy as tough as it is, I just can't imagine the Mexican Government playing that kind of hard-ball and possibly turning away tourist dollars; but I've always said anything's possible in Mexico...
I tell the student's at my College that they DO NOT need a passport regardless of what they have heard, and that a birth certificate and DL will work just fine.
Truth is; If I hadn't of bought mine when I thought this deal was finally going into effect last June, I wouldn't bother to buy one now the way this nonsense has panned out...It never took me any longer to get across with birth certificate and DL than it has with my card.
It seems that proving Citizenship is what matters.
Drivers License is ID, and BC the citizenship is all that is required, Passport not needed.
The fact remains that this will work at Lukeville, but I am troubled with the "common thought" information given is that a Passport or Travel card, Nexxus card, sentri card etc are the one that are the only true legal forms of ID for entry. THe two forms of Documentation while accepted are not compliant with the rules.
This thread tells us the two document requirement for citizenship.
But in BOLD in various Websites from Homeland to Immigration it talks about being WHTI compliant after 6/2009. And:
"Two-document option denoting citizenship and identity. Please see the CBP tear sheet for complete details. This option is only valid until June 1, 2009."
Anyone with a link from a .gov website indicating the 2 forms of ID, valid DL and BC is compliant? I hate to tell people it is OK when it is not written in law. WHTI, is the initiative that passed in June 2009. It does NOT denote a DL and BC as compliant.
Homeland security Website specifically mentions that the two form of ID, LC and BC becoming obsolete....
If you have a valid "original/certified" birth certificate and photo ID....what are they going to do, turn you away? These are exactly the same documents that are used when you apply for a passport. The worst they can do is hassle you, delay you, and I'm not sure if there is a provision in the law for it, but maybe hit you with a fine????
I know...I'm being logical and we're dealing with the government!!!
of the 14 people in the van on Sunday, 2 did not had passports, one had DL and BC and the other had a DL and reciept for the passport from post office and a non notariced copy of a BC, it did not slow any the traffic, took about 2 minutes all together circling the van and I was towing a trailer too!!
I do have to say the waiting line was huge almost to the circle K, but as you know........:eek3:
of the 14 people in the van on Sunday, 2 did not had passports, one had DL and BC and the other had a DL and reciept for the passport from post office and a non notariced copy of a BC, it did not slow any the traffic, took about 2 minutes all together circling the van and I was towing a trailer too!!
I do have to say the waiting line was huge almost to the circle K, but as you know........:eek3:
14 people in the Van!!! I guess Eduardo is buying the first round!
Wahoo, et al - That is exacly right - proving U.S. citizenship is what is required to to return to the U.S. There are more than one way to prove u.S citizenship.
"The fact remains that this will work at Lukeville, but I am troubled with the "common thought" information given is that a Passport or Travel card, Nexxus card, sentri card etc are the one that are the only true legal forms of ID for entry. THe two forms of Documentation while accepted are not compliant with the rules."
You are correct in your quote above. The U.S. government has made clear for some time the stand-alone documents that are acceptible for proof of U.S.citizenship, to expedite re-entry to the U.S. by U.S. citizens.. It is beyond me why people continue to fight so hard to not accept this. If you fly overseas, or take a cruise to a foreign country, a U.S. passport is required to re-enter the U.S. Just because Mexico is on our border, it is still a foreign country. When you leave the U.S., no matter where you go, you require proof of U.S. citizenship when you return.
Title 10 of the U.S. Code gives Border Inspectors ultimate authority in who they admit to the U.S. They can delay yor entry for as long as necessary until they are assured of your citizenship. Sure, you can play around with birth certificates, supported by photo ID's, which will work. But why add to the delay, and complicate your re-entry process, adding to the delay and inconvenience of those waiting behind you? If you are a U.S. citizen, and desire to visit a foreign country, get a U.S. Passport (or a U.S. Passport Card, or both)!
14 people in the Van!!! I guess Eduardo is buying the first round!
Well, I found one of the tires was separating and had to buy new ones, 4 new tires gadadammit!! they were expensive, so the round will have to be tecate, next time will be tequila!!! a caballo regalado no le mires los dientes, so if you do not like tecate you will need to buy your own drinks!!! :eek3:
Separation should have been covered under warrantee.....
Hey Ink...are you running regular tires ...P series (non LT...Light Truck) on the van? I used to have a Chevy Van, and went thru tires like crazy. Even going to oversize didn't help. The fronts really wore fast, particularly the outer ribs. Solved the problem when I switched to LT.
I run Michelins (and no, I'm not trying to start a tire war)....they ride smooth, wear great (was getting 80K miles on them....could have gotten more, but they were deteriorating on the sidewall from the ozone/sunlight) so didn't want to risk a blowout in AZ heat.
Separation should have been covered under warrantee.....
Hey Ink...are you running regular tires ...P series (non LT...Light Truck) on the van? I used to have a Chevy Van, and went thru tires like crazy. Even going to oversize didn't help. The fronts really wore fast, particularly the outer ribs. Solved the problem when I switched to LT.
I run Michelins (and no, I'm not trying to start a tire war)....they ride smooth, wear great (was getting 80K miles on them....could have gotten more, but they were deteriorating on the sidewall from the ozone/sunlight) so didn't want to risk a blowout in AZ heat.
Possibly, but did not want to fool around with it, you are right got Michelin XLT's and they are really smooth compare to the wranglers it had before and even milage has improved!!
If you have a valid "original/certified" birth certificate and photo ID....what are they going to do, turn you away? These are exactly the same documents that are used when you apply for a passport. The worst they can do is hassle you, delay you, and I'm not sure if there is a provision in the law for it, but maybe hit you with a fine????
I know...I'm being logical and we're dealing with the government!!!
Sorry for dredging up an old thread but I figured it would be better to put this here than start a new thread. I crossed back over the border last night about 5pm with my wife and kids. Kids all under sixteen, all six of us have original BCs and my wife and I had our DLs (no passport cards). We've crossed many times since June 09 w/o the passport cards and never had any issues.
This time I pressed the issue when the agent asked why we didn't have the cards since it was the law. I told him I thought it was ridiculous that the BC was sufficient for the backseat passengers but a BC and DL was to enough for the front seat passengers. I told him we refused to get the cards - that these docs should be sufficient. As he took the docs and stepped into the guard shack to run the docs I asked him if anyone had ever given him an answer like that. He said "no". He sAid he didn't make the law, he just has to enforce them. I said I understood thAt he was doing his job.
He then stepped out the other side and talked to a few of the other agents, came back and typed some more, meanwhile two agents came over w/ dogs and sniffed my car over while a third looked into all of the back windows of our suburban. After about 10 minutes total, the original agent came back, returned our docs and told us to have a safe trip home.
When they leave you to chicken peck stuff in their computer they are putting info in about your attitude at the time of crossing, I know this as I have had it come to bite me in the past - yes they have to let you in to your country of birth, it is part of the constitution, but they can get very nasty.
My wife was detained for over a half an hour simply because she is a gringa but drives a Sonoran plated vehicle. They pulled her aside and made her sit in a detention room while they took her jeep apart (not literally) I called her to see how things were going and she started to tell me when I heard the supervisor yell at her to put the phone away, no phone calls.
Point of the story is to just get thru that line and keep moving these guys are unpredictable in their motives and actions. Most of the time its ok, sometimes its unbearable......I would hate to have their job I think it stinks.
Why even stirl the pot with them . Get your passport or whatever and help move the line along. Maybe no line this time but next time might be a long one. Answer the questions and say thanks for what you do and go on. It's always a test to see what line might be the fastest. Win some loose some.
When they leave you to chicken peck stuff in their computer they are putting info in about your attitude at the time of crossing, I know this as I have had it come to bite me in the past - yes they have to let you in to your country of birth, it is part of the constitution, but they can get very nasty.
My wife was detained for over a half an hour simply because she is a gringa but drives a Sonoran plated ve
hicle. They pulled her aside and made her sit in a detention room while they took her jeep apart (not literally) I called her to see how things were going and she started to tell me when I heard the supervisor yell at her to put the phone away, no phone calls.
Point of the story is to just get thru that line and keep moving these guys are unpredictable in their motives and actions.
Most of the time its ok, sometimes its unbearable......I would hate to have their job I think it stinks.
I appreciate the input - I figured he was either doing that or seeing if I had any parking tickets, overdue library books or anything else out of the ordinary thAt could be an issue to detain me beyond my original questions. For the record I was polite in my questions although I seemed to have irritated a much more important authority - my wife. Were getting passports in the next few weeks for some upcoming unrelated travel so all should be good for our trip in September - unless his notes come back to haunt me...guess I'll find out soon enough
Why even stirl the pot with them . Get your passport or whatever and help move the line along. Maybe no line this time but next time might be a long one. Answer the questions and say thanks for what you do and go on. It's always a test to see what line might be the fastest. Win some loose some.
My biggest issue is the way the law is written. It favors the young and sets in place additional hurdles for older people who are all looking to do the same thing - return to their country of origin. Imagine the uproar if the cut-off was 66 instead of 16. It would have made more sense to just require passports for everyone - then it would be fair for everyone.