Smilin' Jack
Guest
It is naive to hope that there will be no repercussions. However, since the local authorities were not responsible for, or a part of the recent action, it is reasonable to assume that they will be free from repercussions.
Wierd scene coming into Rocky Point today.
- Thread starter Panamahat
- Start date
Smilin' Jack
Guest
"as far as we know". How about Operation Fast and Furious, delivering thousands of guns, not available in gun shops in the US, into the hands of the drug cartels? The US administration has been discouraging US tourism to Mexico for many years. Various State Department warnings is testimony. Anyone crossing into or returning from Mexico is aware of US BCI agent intimidation as a reward for visiting Mexico.
Smilin' Jack
Guest
Get real! There were only 4 or 5 killed. They are only an insignificant tip of the iceberg in Penasco. The Sinaloa Cartel is in total control of Penasco. It would be far worse if we had other cartels fighting for territory with the Sinaloa Cartel. If there were no drug routes to the US, and our border was under control, there would be no drug cartel activity in Penasco. Tell that to Obama!
Man In Black
Guest
It's game over for the bad guys fact is we haven't had one violent death in past 6 months while inPhoenix we havent had one in about 6 minutes. You want to compare apples to oranges or bitch about how your government would not lie to you I suggest you have on the next flight to the moon. Leaving every 20 minutes
CJ*
Guest
"...not let some scummy people put down what we have all worked for so many years..."
If that is the best you can come up with in response to those folks who went through this, my sympathies. Next time you are in fear of dying, let me know so I can insult you back.
And to other posters, the gunship was firing towards the condos as I said - not at the condos - but we believed at the time they were firing at something on or near the Hut - but in the direction of the condos - not into the desert. I assumed because of the ricocheting bullets they weren't firing into sand either.
ADR
Guest
Well, here is someone that is clearly not "happy" with this situation. Feel free to join the conversation!
https://www.facebook.com/jack.stien.50?hc_location=stream
Canuck, as someone that used to fire a 50cal off the top of an armored vehicle for a living many years ago, I understand where you are coming from.
Those guns are VERY loud and it would have scared the shit out of me as well.
Only you know what you saw, and of course angles can be deceiving, it sounds to me like they were shooting at guys running away in vehicles, headed away from the condos, instead of at or towards the condos. If they were flying on the north side of the cholla road, it makes sense. 50cal's can be pretty accurate, even when moving through the air, with proper training that is. However I was not there, and I don't blame you for not wanting to come back to Penasco anytime soon, and you are welcome to have your own opinion, even though people here don't always see it that way. It won't change my monthly trips down south though.
https://www.facebook.com/jack.stien.50?hc_location=stream
Canuck, as someone that used to fire a 50cal off the top of an armored vehicle for a living many years ago, I understand where you are coming from.
Those guns are VERY loud and it would have scared the shit out of me as well.
Only you know what you saw, and of course angles can be deceiving, it sounds to me like they were shooting at guys running away in vehicles, headed away from the condos, instead of at or towards the condos. If they were flying on the north side of the cholla road, it makes sense. 50cal's can be pretty accurate, even when moving through the air, with proper training that is. However I was not there, and I don't blame you for not wanting to come back to Penasco anytime soon, and you are welcome to have your own opinion, even though people here don't always see it that way. It won't change my monthly trips down south though.
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playaperro
El Pirata
tequilatodd
Guest
All the local stations ran a little something on the day it happened, but not the coverage you would expect
ben21
Guest
Agreed, I feel like this hasn't gotten as much attention as I thought it would. I think a line was drawn in the sand a few years back between people that will come down here, and others that won't. The people that are scared were already scared to come down and this just re-affirms it. Now, if an American or Canadian tourist was killed, well, then it would truly be RIP for Penasco.
tequilatodd
Guest
It would definitely change PP as far as tourism is concerned.
But if there was a similar event near or at Disneyland, you can bet it wouldn't slow them down much there.
ben21
Guest
Correct, but fair or not, PP is always going to fight an uphill battle due to the fact that it's in Mexico.
Jack Stien looks like Happy.
Ahhh, the spin doctors trying to work their magic! Gotta love it! Radio this morning (KFYI), the Governor of Sonora - "Don't cancel your Christmas plans, c'mon down, everything is safe now." Followed by the same ol' lame excuse "Violent crimes can happen anywhere." Was I wrong to laugh out loud? Nope.
Why you ask? Well... let's look at it this way. You're sitting in your nice home/condo in Scottsdale and awake to gunfire, helicopters firing mini-guns and this goes on for a couple of hours. WTF?? This would be major news and you'd never hear the end of it - it's unacceptable (and illegal) for the military to enforce civil law here in the U.S. That's part of the reason we've seen such a militarization of local police forces -- most departments now have armored vehicles and SWAT teams/hardware that would rival that of many military units.
In Mexico? All bets are off. Corruption permeates the police at local levels, despite ongoing efforts to reform this. It's often impossible to tell the good guys from the bad guys and sometimes, they are one and the same. Hence the report earlier in this thread of them corralling the local police force during this event. So, the military becomes the weapon of choice because they are the only ones that can be trusted.
But we're still talking the military here. These guys are trained in heavy weapons and tactics. They are NOT trained in preventing civilian casualties, they're trained to shoot to kill, as any military should be. I wasn't there, but reading the reports, looking over the pictures, reviewing every piece of information I could get my hands on, this was a military operation from the get go. They went in knowing they were facing a firefight and they brought heavy firepower. Yes, you can truly call it a war zone because weapons of war were being used to enforce civil law.
Some bad guys were taken down. Am I sad? No, I'm not. That's the only positive outcome of any of this. But I honestly question the tactics and strategy of blasting a civilian resort to hell like this. If indeed the DEA was involved/orchestrated and they KNEW Macho was there, why not lay low and wait him out and do the take down after he left the resort. These bad guys move around a lot and it wouldn't have been a long wait to take him out as he made a move somewhere else, perhaps out of town. The fact they that went in guns and helicopters ablazin' was overly macho bullshit and showmanship designed to send a clear message about who's in charge and what lengths they will go to in order to stay in charge.
That would never be acceptable on this side of the border. In Mexico? Just another day, nothing to see here, move along, all is safe -- until next time.
Why you ask? Well... let's look at it this way. You're sitting in your nice home/condo in Scottsdale and awake to gunfire, helicopters firing mini-guns and this goes on for a couple of hours. WTF?? This would be major news and you'd never hear the end of it - it's unacceptable (and illegal) for the military to enforce civil law here in the U.S. That's part of the reason we've seen such a militarization of local police forces -- most departments now have armored vehicles and SWAT teams/hardware that would rival that of many military units.
In Mexico? All bets are off. Corruption permeates the police at local levels, despite ongoing efforts to reform this. It's often impossible to tell the good guys from the bad guys and sometimes, they are one and the same. Hence the report earlier in this thread of them corralling the local police force during this event. So, the military becomes the weapon of choice because they are the only ones that can be trusted.
But we're still talking the military here. These guys are trained in heavy weapons and tactics. They are NOT trained in preventing civilian casualties, they're trained to shoot to kill, as any military should be. I wasn't there, but reading the reports, looking over the pictures, reviewing every piece of information I could get my hands on, this was a military operation from the get go. They went in knowing they were facing a firefight and they brought heavy firepower. Yes, you can truly call it a war zone because weapons of war were being used to enforce civil law.
Some bad guys were taken down. Am I sad? No, I'm not. That's the only positive outcome of any of this. But I honestly question the tactics and strategy of blasting a civilian resort to hell like this. If indeed the DEA was involved/orchestrated and they KNEW Macho was there, why not lay low and wait him out and do the take down after he left the resort. These bad guys move around a lot and it wouldn't have been a long wait to take him out as he made a move somewhere else, perhaps out of town. The fact they that went in guns and helicopters ablazin' was overly macho bullshit and showmanship designed to send a clear message about who's in charge and what lengths they will go to in order to stay in charge.
That would never be acceptable on this side of the border. In Mexico? Just another day, nothing to see here, move along, all is safe -- until next time.
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"it sounds to me like they were shooting at guys running away in vehicles" - that makes sense given what we saw.
But the firing was without any doubt from north to south, in what appeared to be near the Hut. The tracers were coming down at about a 30 degree angle, then there was flak flying around from whatever they were shooting at.
But there is no question that the ricocheting bullets, based on the tracers, were travelling from north to south at about a 30 degree angle up, then disappeared to the west of the Spa.
This is what we saw, but we will likely never hear the whole story. Bottom line is that this operation was conducted without little concern for the local residents, tourists or staff - no matter the reassurances that no one was in danger - it was too close for comfort.
I tried to upload some pics I took, but continue to get error messages. One of them from 11:00 am shows two marine trucks with machine gun mounts in the rear patrolling the lot of the Spa - clearly they still though someone was on the loose.
What does that mean? Who is Jack Stien and/or Happy?
Update, never mind I just saw the link - I agree those FB posts are way out of line
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Happy is a mentally challenged ex-member of this forum whose MO is easy to spot. He uses the ~~~~ a lot in his rants.