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rob4092xx
Guest
Been down all week and several locals told me there were two bodies found buried out in the desert last week near Rocky Point. I am hoping this only a bad rumor. Anyone else here of such a thing?
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Roberto
Guest
Well ya better stay out of Phoenix, Tucson, San Diego, LA, San Francisco, Denver, Albuquerque, NYC.........etc. :lol::lol::lol::lol:
You are worrying waayyyy too much! If all of us tell you it's fine, then it's fine. I have been going to Rocky Point for 42 years. I'll let you know when it's not fine. Just stay out of the areas you would normally stay out of and you'll be fine. OK? OK!
jerry
Guest
Hmmmm. the narcos are known to break off from an attack on another narco to kill American children.I'd rub a little bacon grease on my least favorite child and the rest of you should be able to escape.
You might checkout Deadliest warrior (the sholin monk vs. the Maoiri Warrior to learn how to make a shark tooth club. It could come in handy
http://www.spike.com/video/aftermath-shaolin/3174698
You might checkout Deadliest warrior (the sholin monk vs. the Maoiri Warrior to learn how to make a shark tooth club. It could come in handy
http://www.spike.com/video/aftermath-shaolin/3174698
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Submarine
Guest
If they were killed in Rocky Point you can be assured it was from repeated hugs. Last I heard Barney was seen in the area, so cause of death was probably the hugs compounded by repeated singing of "I love you, you love me..."
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m4shawn
Guest
apb, I applaud you for at least having an open mind and not blindly falling into the sheep-like hyseria that has gripped many American travelers, thanks to the gross negligence of the media. Since we do have your attention, I cannot stress to you enough how completely unnecessary your fears are - it's not your fault - the media and then rampant rumor are to blame; it is truly ridiculous and a crime. There is nothing to be afraid of. Rocky Point is NOT Mexico City, Tijuana or Juarez - and even the stories from there are distorted and misunderstood. There truly is more crime and peril in American cities than anything close to RP. There were 2 drive-bye shootings in Scottsdale AZ last year - were you aware of this? Did you question the wisdom of driving there or eating there.... at all? Why not? How about Mesa where they average 9 homcides a year? Afraid of Mesa, AZ yet? You see my point? This apprehension of Mexico is not about reality - it's about perception. 100%. Dont be a silly, xenophobic American dummy and fear RP - regular, law abiding, school attending, business owning, grocery shopping people live there.... who just happen to speak Spanish and live much more modestly than we do. If Mexico was anywhere close to being "on the verge of collapse", do you think for a second the borders would not be shut down? I mean, really, come on - think about it. RP or any of Mexico is not the Gaza Strip - it's not Somalia.
I run a volleyball tournment every April & October in RP - just this past April 4th weekend 180 of us traveled to and from and had a delightful time - not one person was accosted with so much as a cross eyed stare by a Mexican citizen. Two weeks later many came down for a Triathlon. Many came for Memorial Day. Many are coming June 6th weekend for a concert. You are truly in more danger when you drive into Phoenix to see a D-Backs game - it's just that your perception (illusion) is that you are somehow "safer", more "in control" in white, English speaking Phoenix.
Don't be a fool - come and enjoy RP and don't fear it because of shameful hype.
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Submarine
Guest
All true but we really don't have current accurate crime statistics for Mexico, just the more sensational crimes that make the local news that lead us to this perception. I believe I posted elsewhere on here some UN crime stats that had Mexico pretty high up there. Of course, just as Detroit doesn't speak for Phoenix I wouldn't put Ciudad Obregon in the same basket as Puerto Penasco. I wouldn't make any blanket statements that "Rocky Point Is Safe" without knowing more facts. It all depends on what your risk tolerance is. "Life is full of risks, why not take them?" is my philosophy (and Lindsay Lohan's apparently LOL). There are inherrent risks to travelling in any country and Mexico is no exception. It's up to everyone to decide for themselves whether these risks are beyond their tolerance.
As for Rocky Point, there isn't any great barrier force field protecting from the problems the rest of the country experiences to varying degrees. I'm personally surprised that there isn't more violence and more drug trafficking. Maybe there is and we just don't hear about it. I think that Sonoyta is more dangerous than Rocky Point and the drive down is probably in between somewhere. Won't stop me from going because as I read the other day: "we are all sentenced to death" so if it's bound to happen eventually you might as well do the things you enjoy.
In Mexico there is no 911. Police corruption is rampant in some areas, and in my experience, present everywhere so you may not get the help you need when you need it unless you can pay. You won't be bringing your gun so you can't protect yourself with anything other than knives or clubs but mostly your wits. You can feel protected in the saying that "criminals know if they prey on tourists that tourism will be affected". Since when did criminals become smart? Perhaps Mexico forces them all to attend Universities.:roll:
I visit Tahiti fairly regularly and once had a similar discussion on another forum. Usually crime in French Polynesia is limited to cameras and cash dissappearing from unlocked overwater bungalows. The culprits are usually neighborhood kids that are dealt with by the community. IMO the culture is responsible for the perceived low crime rate as it is very family oriented. Also the people are 'rich' in the sense that they do not need very much to be happy (after all, they live in the true paradise of this planet). The OP was inquiring about bringing a gun because he did not want to become a victim. Everyone else attacked his motives but I personally saw his point of view. Doing a little research and I found a vicious triple homicide involving former NBA player Bison Dele, his wife, and their captain. I was there about the same time period as this happened, and nothing happened to me. Did this prove anything? Nope, anecdotes are just that. Guess I'm lucky I didn't accept any invitations to party on ball players yachts becuse those seem to hapen all the time.
Even more research found a possible link to a missing reporter, now presumed to be a homicide, and Tahiti's Emperor Gaston Flosse. So now I wonder if Paradise is exactly that or do we just not hear of the true crimes that occur?
Simply put, no place is really safe, it's just all what level of risk tolerance you are comfortable with.
As for Rocky Point, there isn't any great barrier force field protecting from the problems the rest of the country experiences to varying degrees. I'm personally surprised that there isn't more violence and more drug trafficking. Maybe there is and we just don't hear about it. I think that Sonoyta is more dangerous than Rocky Point and the drive down is probably in between somewhere. Won't stop me from going because as I read the other day: "we are all sentenced to death" so if it's bound to happen eventually you might as well do the things you enjoy.
In Mexico there is no 911. Police corruption is rampant in some areas, and in my experience, present everywhere so you may not get the help you need when you need it unless you can pay. You won't be bringing your gun so you can't protect yourself with anything other than knives or clubs but mostly your wits. You can feel protected in the saying that "criminals know if they prey on tourists that tourism will be affected". Since when did criminals become smart? Perhaps Mexico forces them all to attend Universities.:roll:
I visit Tahiti fairly regularly and once had a similar discussion on another forum. Usually crime in French Polynesia is limited to cameras and cash dissappearing from unlocked overwater bungalows. The culprits are usually neighborhood kids that are dealt with by the community. IMO the culture is responsible for the perceived low crime rate as it is very family oriented. Also the people are 'rich' in the sense that they do not need very much to be happy (after all, they live in the true paradise of this planet). The OP was inquiring about bringing a gun because he did not want to become a victim. Everyone else attacked his motives but I personally saw his point of view. Doing a little research and I found a vicious triple homicide involving former NBA player Bison Dele, his wife, and their captain. I was there about the same time period as this happened, and nothing happened to me. Did this prove anything? Nope, anecdotes are just that. Guess I'm lucky I didn't accept any invitations to party on ball players yachts becuse those seem to hapen all the time.
Even more research found a possible link to a missing reporter, now presumed to be a homicide, and Tahiti's Emperor Gaston Flosse. So now I wonder if Paradise is exactly that or do we just not hear of the true crimes that occur? Simply put, no place is really safe, it's just all what level of risk tolerance you are comfortable with.
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m4shawn
Guest
I'm sorry Submarine, but I really have to say you re missing the critical point with all your sarcastic "wit" about your "screw it, we're all gonna die one day" schtick. Apg's concerns are about his family and well being, as is 99% of us.
The point was never that Rocky Point is a Garden of Eden immmune to chance or human danger; no one was proposing that.
THE POINT IS: the perceived "threat" of Mexico/RP is way overblown and out of proportion and misunderstood - the point IS that there is a huge disconnect between skiddish American's perceptions and the reality of the "threat", both in regard to the fku and esp - especially with Killer/Kidnapping/Drug Mule Stuffing Mexican drug cartel vampires and the country being On-The-Brink-Of-Collapse. Nobody is preying upon Americans, and THAT is the hysterical hoax that has permeated. Don't be glib and snarky, man - that shit isn't going to help anyone gain confidence.
The point was never that Rocky Point is a Garden of Eden immmune to chance or human danger; no one was proposing that.
THE POINT IS: the perceived "threat" of Mexico/RP is way overblown and out of proportion and misunderstood - the point IS that there is a huge disconnect between skiddish American's perceptions and the reality of the "threat", both in regard to the fku and esp - especially with Killer/Kidnapping/Drug Mule Stuffing Mexican drug cartel vampires and the country being On-The-Brink-Of-Collapse. Nobody is preying upon Americans, and THAT is the hysterical hoax that has permeated. Don't be glib and snarky, man - that shit isn't going to help anyone gain confidence.
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Submarine
Guest
I think the point is that you can't prove any of that except with anecdotes. If Billy Bob and Martha go down and have a great time with not so much a lost wallet it doesn't prove anything, and those kind of anecdotes are all anyone can offer as 'proof' that Rocky Point is safe.
We have a motorhome destroyed on the road to RP and everyone sees it but no one knows if it was your run of the mill accident or another drug deal gone bad as what happened at the shrine stop before the 'curve' back in the 90's (what was the body count, 3?). Again, the problem is lack of real facts about what is going on down there. I'm sorry if this keeps Billy Bob & Martha from making a second trip or if it keeps their families from coming down but people have a right to know the truth so they can make their own decisions.
Sure the media reports are generalized and overblown, but not to the extent you are saying. These stories don't just invent themselves.
We have a motorhome destroyed on the road to RP and everyone sees it but no one knows if it was your run of the mill accident or another drug deal gone bad as what happened at the shrine stop before the 'curve' back in the 90's (what was the body count, 3?). Again, the problem is lack of real facts about what is going on down there. I'm sorry if this keeps Billy Bob & Martha from making a second trip or if it keeps their families from coming down but people have a right to know the truth so they can make their own decisions.
Sure the media reports are generalized and overblown, but not to the extent you are saying. These stories don't just invent themselves.
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m4shawn
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Submarine
Guest
Hey take a deep breath. Going back a bit, I re-read my post you responded to and I don't feel it was particularly sarcastic. Witty I can't help but hey, it's a gift!
You pretty much proved my point. I live in Gilbert, which is pretty much perceived as a 'safe' community. If I want to prove that to myself, I can go online and look at crime statistics: http://www.ci.gilbert.az.us/police/analysisstats.cfm And if I want to compare that against pretty much any other city in America I can find the same Uniform Crime Statistics quite easily. As you said, "Adults and intelligent people" use perspective by "measuring real facts about RP/Mexico against what happens every day in the U.S." Point me to the UCS of Rocky Point. Can't find it? Didn't think so.
You can, however, gain perspective looking at UN crime statistics for the entire country which I talked about here: http://www.rockypointtalk.net/showthread.php?t=511&highlight=murder+rate
This puts Mexico's murder rate at roughly 3 times that of the U.S. as a whole. Obviously there are 'hotspots' just like in the U.S. I think we would agree that the Border is a 'hotspot', the border you must navigate every time you go to Rocky Point.
My own perspective is that there have been murders on the road there, shootings at the border that made for a nice short wait across (got to get more of those when I'm there), dead bodies found in the desert the most high profile of which was the accountant for Puerta Privada (normal layoff process?), and; my favorite, the murder of Trish Huish by Ysenia Patino.
I have paid a couple of hundred in mordida over the years. Been stopped by numerous Federale patrols where 16 year olds carry M-60's and scare the crap out of whatever female happened to be in the car. I drive down every time knowing that any accident is likely to be fatal, regardless of how much I give the red cross people at the checkpoint. I've lost count of how many burning hulks I've seen on the side of the road during the trip down. Speaking of accidents, I've personally seen scores of ATV accidents including my own brother who was laid up in the hospital for 3 months. The last time we went there was a caravan of Californians who were escorting their friend back to the states as he was in an accident just as they arrived and it was pretty bad. Safe? No I would not call it safe. Acceptable level of risk is my term.
You can't ask locals about whether RP is safe because they will only reassure you because they have a vested interest. The Policia have the same interest but I doubt they keep any figures to back up their statements. Trying to get facts is like asking the Rocky Point Times for hard hitting investigative journalism. I'm a realist, not a scare-monger. I tell people what I know or have experienced and let them decide for themselves if it's too risky or not. I haven't had any serious incidents over the 30 years I've been going down, but I've never won the lottery either. Which is more likely to happen?
You pretty much proved my point. I live in Gilbert, which is pretty much perceived as a 'safe' community. If I want to prove that to myself, I can go online and look at crime statistics: http://www.ci.gilbert.az.us/police/analysisstats.cfm And if I want to compare that against pretty much any other city in America I can find the same Uniform Crime Statistics quite easily. As you said, "Adults and intelligent people" use perspective by "measuring real facts about RP/Mexico against what happens every day in the U.S." Point me to the UCS of Rocky Point. Can't find it? Didn't think so.
You can, however, gain perspective looking at UN crime statistics for the entire country which I talked about here: http://www.rockypointtalk.net/showthread.php?t=511&highlight=murder+rate
This puts Mexico's murder rate at roughly 3 times that of the U.S. as a whole. Obviously there are 'hotspots' just like in the U.S. I think we would agree that the Border is a 'hotspot', the border you must navigate every time you go to Rocky Point.
My own perspective is that there have been murders on the road there, shootings at the border that made for a nice short wait across (got to get more of those when I'm there), dead bodies found in the desert the most high profile of which was the accountant for Puerta Privada (normal layoff process?), and; my favorite, the murder of Trish Huish by Ysenia Patino.
I have paid a couple of hundred in mordida over the years. Been stopped by numerous Federale patrols where 16 year olds carry M-60's and scare the crap out of whatever female happened to be in the car. I drive down every time knowing that any accident is likely to be fatal, regardless of how much I give the red cross people at the checkpoint. I've lost count of how many burning hulks I've seen on the side of the road during the trip down. Speaking of accidents, I've personally seen scores of ATV accidents including my own brother who was laid up in the hospital for 3 months. The last time we went there was a caravan of Californians who were escorting their friend back to the states as he was in an accident just as they arrived and it was pretty bad. Safe? No I would not call it safe. Acceptable level of risk is my term.
You can't ask locals about whether RP is safe because they will only reassure you because they have a vested interest. The Policia have the same interest but I doubt they keep any figures to back up their statements. Trying to get facts is like asking the Rocky Point Times for hard hitting investigative journalism. I'm a realist, not a scare-monger. I tell people what I know or have experienced and let them decide for themselves if it's too risky or not. I haven't had any serious incidents over the 30 years I've been going down, but I've never won the lottery either. Which is more likely to happen?
dmcauley
Guest
Has anyone confirmed this report? Seems that I have never heard anything other than one man's story that he heard from locals. If this individual is able to communicate with the locals it means he speaks good spanish and also has been hanging around Mexico long enough to know not to believe every thing that he hears at a bar.
PS Sub, next time you need a cop in PP dial 611. Don't try this number in Gilbert because they don't have it.
PS Sub, next time you need a cop in PP dial 611. Don't try this number in Gilbert because they don't have it.
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rockyptjoe
Guest
I thought the "emergency" number down there was 66..........
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m4shawn
Guest
Submarine says:"You pretty much proved my point."
Which was...? I did??
Look, (laughing at the ridiculousness of this..) is Rocky Point under seige by drug thugs and boogie men - are people in any SPECIAL or elevated Defcon 5 danger of being kidnapped, beheaded, robbed, shot or spit at on the way to RP? That's the core question, remember?
I'm asking you why ISN'T RP safe? I am asking what justifies lumping RP in with Mexico at large and the current LEVEL of Mexico-phobia?
First you tell us report after report of safe travel means nothing - tens of thousands of "Bob & Marthas" experiencing safe travel means squat - that's brilliant - there could be nasty business befalling victims all the time and we just haven't heard it - I guess??
Then you give your own personal suspicions and anecdotes and vague example of cosmically possible danger.
Then you offer your philosphy that "we're all sentenced to die so do what you like", which was just weird.
Now you say it's probably not safe because I can't deliver a stat sheet of crime facts - more of the "if-you-can't-prove-it's-safe-then-how-do-we-know-it-isn't-dangerous" logic. Ass backwards, I'm sorry, but that is. (If you can't show me that a meteor attack is not coming this afternoon, then it may very well be school of thought?)
Now you are talking about old individual murders, ATV accidents, vague Federale spook stories and tales of burning hulks roadside (huh? - Road Warrior stuff or simple breakdowns - what are you suggesting?) Beruit?
Once again, I must force this concept of perspective down your throat - swallow it - it eat, it's good for you, I promise.
The point you tried to make that got my goat was this:
"I think the point is that you can't prove any of that except with anecdotes. If Billy Bob and Martha go down and have a great time with not so much a lost wallet it doesn't prove anything, and those kind of anecdotes are all anyone can offer as 'proof' that Rocky Point is safe."
You really don't see the insanity of this logic?
Let me put it in analogy:
Let's say you and I are about to exit our house together, at night.
Rocky Point and the road there are like the outside... at night, OK?
You say, with a straight face: "Stop. There might be ninjas out there."
To which I reply, "No I don't think so. Let's go."
You: "Prove to me there are no ninjas in the bushes with big Samurai swords."
Me: "Prove to you there are no ninjas? What the hell?"
You: "See you can't. Do you know for a fact we're not going to get a throwing star in the throat?"
Me: "Have there been a rash of ninja attacks I don't know about?"
You: "No. But that proves nothing. Maybe we just don't know about them. Can you prove ninjas are not ready to strike us down with bloody precise force? Can you?"
Me: "Umm... none of the neighbors have been executed; I think we are alright."
You: "Hmmph. That means nothing. Anecdotes. Peolple get attacked outside at night a lot."
Me: "Where?"
You: "Other places. I read about it. One time, in Nagasaki -"
Me: "Nagasaki?"
You: "And also in Taiwan, and also in this one ninja movie I saw. I also saw a car on fire. And a friend wrecked his bike once too."
Me: "What?? Ahem - So you won't go out, because.... I cannot prove to you there is no ninja behind our car?"
You: "I'm just saying there could be. But fukk it - I'm a risk taker!"
Me: "Uh....huh..."
Which was...? I did??
Look, (laughing at the ridiculousness of this..) is Rocky Point under seige by drug thugs and boogie men - are people in any SPECIAL or elevated Defcon 5 danger of being kidnapped, beheaded, robbed, shot or spit at on the way to RP? That's the core question, remember?
I'm asking you why ISN'T RP safe? I am asking what justifies lumping RP in with Mexico at large and the current LEVEL of Mexico-phobia?
First you tell us report after report of safe travel means nothing - tens of thousands of "Bob & Marthas" experiencing safe travel means squat - that's brilliant - there could be nasty business befalling victims all the time and we just haven't heard it - I guess??
Then you give your own personal suspicions and anecdotes and vague example of cosmically possible danger.
Then you offer your philosphy that "we're all sentenced to die so do what you like", which was just weird.
Now you say it's probably not safe because I can't deliver a stat sheet of crime facts - more of the "if-you-can't-prove-it's-safe-then-how-do-we-know-it-isn't-dangerous" logic. Ass backwards, I'm sorry, but that is. (If you can't show me that a meteor attack is not coming this afternoon, then it may very well be school of thought?)
Now you are talking about old individual murders, ATV accidents, vague Federale spook stories and tales of burning hulks roadside (huh? - Road Warrior stuff or simple breakdowns - what are you suggesting?) Beruit?
Once again, I must force this concept of perspective down your throat - swallow it - it eat, it's good for you, I promise.
The point you tried to make that got my goat was this:
"I think the point is that you can't prove any of that except with anecdotes. If Billy Bob and Martha go down and have a great time with not so much a lost wallet it doesn't prove anything, and those kind of anecdotes are all anyone can offer as 'proof' that Rocky Point is safe."
You really don't see the insanity of this logic?
Let me put it in analogy:
Let's say you and I are about to exit our house together, at night.
Rocky Point and the road there are like the outside... at night, OK?
You say, with a straight face: "Stop. There might be ninjas out there."
To which I reply, "No I don't think so. Let's go."
You: "Prove to me there are no ninjas in the bushes with big Samurai swords."
Me: "Prove to you there are no ninjas? What the hell?"
You: "See you can't. Do you know for a fact we're not going to get a throwing star in the throat?"
Me: "Have there been a rash of ninja attacks I don't know about?"
You: "No. But that proves nothing. Maybe we just don't know about them. Can you prove ninjas are not ready to strike us down with bloody precise force? Can you?"
Me: "Umm... none of the neighbors have been executed; I think we are alright."
You: "Hmmph. That means nothing. Anecdotes. Peolple get attacked outside at night a lot."
Me: "Where?"
You: "Other places. I read about it. One time, in Nagasaki -"
Me: "Nagasaki?"
You: "And also in Taiwan, and also in this one ninja movie I saw. I also saw a car on fire. And a friend wrecked his bike once too."
Me: "What?? Ahem - So you won't go out, because.... I cannot prove to you there is no ninja behind our car?"
You: "I'm just saying there could be. But fukk it - I'm a risk taker!"
Me: "Uh....huh..."
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Jim
Guest
The police emergency is 066. I asked a cop friend of mine about the supposed incident and he said that he had heard no such report. Now I think that he would know don't you? Sub, come on will ya? You're the glass half empty kind of guy huh? I know you like the shorter wait at the border but trying to scare people away is the medias job not yours. I once had a cooler stolen out of the back of my truck. It was parked in front of a bar at 1:30AM. Lions and tigers and bears, oh my.
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